Southern France
Jan 26th, 2010, 05:09 PM
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Southern France
We finally booked our air travel to France and Italy! We fly into Milan on July 9, travel to Lake Como, Cinque Terre, and then on to France. We plan to stay 4 nights in Provence and the Luberon area first, and then 2 nights in Nice, flying home to San Diego, CA on July 23.
We would like recommendations for a B&B in the Luberon area. Thank you so much! We want a queen bed as the size bed. that is my picky husband's request. My request is nice hosts, a nice breakfast, and centrally located area to drive to different locations as we will have a rental car. any ideas??
Then we want to stay in Nice for 2 nights, right in the heart of things. A hotel with a nice bed and room would be great. Again, we love breakfasts.
Can't wait to go. I took a beginning French class. It was harder than I thought but I will try to use as much as I can.
We would like recommendations for a B&B in the Luberon area. Thank you so much! We want a queen bed as the size bed. that is my picky husband's request. My request is nice hosts, a nice breakfast, and centrally located area to drive to different locations as we will have a rental car. any ideas??
Then we want to stay in Nice for 2 nights, right in the heart of things. A hotel with a nice bed and room would be great. Again, we love breakfasts.
Can't wait to go. I took a beginning French class. It was harder than I thought but I will try to use as much as I can.
Jan 26th, 2010, 06:42 PM
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greg,
they might be considering the train, but even if they do take a rental car from Italy into France, drop-off fees in a different country can sometimes be worth it when you consider the cost of a whole trip, contrary to the "standard advice." Drop-off fees vary, and people should check them out, pro-rate the cost per day, and decide whether or not they think it is worth it compared with other options.
they might be considering the train, but even if they do take a rental car from Italy into France, drop-off fees in a different country can sometimes be worth it when you consider the cost of a whole trip, contrary to the "standard advice." Drop-off fees vary, and people should check them out, pro-rate the cost per day, and decide whether or not they think it is worth it compared with other options.
Jan 26th, 2010, 08:42 PM
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Kevin Widrow (a very helpful poster here) and his wife, Elizabeth, operate a nice B&B in the Lubéron, le Mas Perreal. Here's the link: http://www.masperreal.com/ Their B&B has had a number of very favorable reviews in this forum.
In Nice we have made the Mercure Promenade des Anglais our home in Nice. It's a good hotel right across from the sea, with decent-sized rooms and excellent beds. For breakfast we head over to the Cours Saléya (a walk of only a few blocks from the hotel) and eat at Le Pain Quotidien, a bakery that does wonderful morning food...and also lunch and early dinner.
I'm a bit confused about your itinerary. Provence includes Nice and the Côte d'Azur, and that area is the closest to Italy. If you plan to begin with western Provence you will be in for some serious backtracking.
In Nice we have made the Mercure Promenade des Anglais our home in Nice. It's a good hotel right across from the sea, with decent-sized rooms and excellent beds. For breakfast we head over to the Cours Saléya (a walk of only a few blocks from the hotel) and eat at Le Pain Quotidien, a bakery that does wonderful morning food...and also lunch and early dinner.
I'm a bit confused about your itinerary. Provence includes Nice and the Côte d'Azur, and that area is the closest to Italy. If you plan to begin with western Provence you will be in for some serious backtracking.
Jan 26th, 2010, 08:53 PM
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http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/n..._charmeSud.htm
Here's a list of some in the Luberon as well as other locations.
Here's a list of some in the Luberon as well as other locations.
Jan 27th, 2010, 09:21 AM
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I'de recommend that you take the train from the CT to Nice. We've driven that route in a car many times & it is not fun - at all. Lots of tunnels that tire you out & many opportunities to make a wrong turn near Genoa and then end up on the surface streets in Genoa. Last time we needed to go from Italy to Nice we drove to La Spezia, dumped the car, and took the train. One change in Genoa. It was slow - but MUCH better than driving IMO. Also, it avoids the drop-off charges for a car, AND you avoid paying for the additional Italy basic rental costs PLUS the manditory insurance - which you may not need while driving in France.
Also recommend Kevin's place. He's from the US and is very helpful with planning your day. If you like to hike or drive into "hidden corners" of Provence - he's the expert. Also, his B&B has American bathrooms!!!
Stu Dudley
Also recommend Kevin's place. He's from the US and is very helpful with planning your day. If you like to hike or drive into "hidden corners" of Provence - he's the expert. Also, his B&B has American bathrooms!!!
Stu Dudley
Jan 27th, 2010, 11:35 AM
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ccarpenter,
It's still not clear to me from your original post whether you intend to rent a car at all in Italy, or whether you intend to visit Milano, Lago di Como, le Cinque Terre via train. But if you are thinking of picking up a car in Italy -- or if anyone else is -- I live between le Cinque Terre and Genova and prefer to drive to Nice, simply because the trains can be very inconvenient and slow on that particular run, and driving is much shorter. Obviously I don't experience the difficulties or fatigue described above, or I wouldn't do it. I've even had fun on the route, stopping for lunch in pretty places. The Autostrade are very clearly marked with directional signs indicating how to proceed west to Genova, Savona and Ventimiglia. Again, I advise you to check out for yourself with various car rental office whether keeping the make your trip more enjoyable. Most trains require changes in addition to being slow, meaning hauling luggage through train stations.
However, if you do decide you want to drop off a car after visiting le Cinque Terre, the place to do it is Rapallo, not La Spezia. The Rapallo rental office is quite convenient to the train station, and ES trains bound for France stop at the Rapallo station
Stu,
When have you driven in Italy or Europe? My recollection of your previous posts is that you always have someone else drive you, even in Tuscany and Provence.
It's still not clear to me from your original post whether you intend to rent a car at all in Italy, or whether you intend to visit Milano, Lago di Como, le Cinque Terre via train. But if you are thinking of picking up a car in Italy -- or if anyone else is -- I live between le Cinque Terre and Genova and prefer to drive to Nice, simply because the trains can be very inconvenient and slow on that particular run, and driving is much shorter. Obviously I don't experience the difficulties or fatigue described above, or I wouldn't do it. I've even had fun on the route, stopping for lunch in pretty places. The Autostrade are very clearly marked with directional signs indicating how to proceed west to Genova, Savona and Ventimiglia. Again, I advise you to check out for yourself with various car rental office whether keeping the make your trip more enjoyable. Most trains require changes in addition to being slow, meaning hauling luggage through train stations.
However, if you do decide you want to drop off a car after visiting le Cinque Terre, the place to do it is Rapallo, not La Spezia. The Rapallo rental office is quite convenient to the train station, and ES trains bound for France stop at the Rapallo station
Stu,
When have you driven in Italy or Europe? My recollection of your previous posts is that you always have someone else drive you, even in Tuscany and Provence.
Jan 27th, 2010, 12:22 PM
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>>Stu,
When have you driven in Italy or Europe? My recollection of your previous posts is that you always have someone else drive you, even in Tuscany and Provence.<,
My wife does the driving - I do the navigating.
Stu Dudley
When have you driven in Italy or Europe? My recollection of your previous posts is that you always have someone else drive you, even in Tuscany and Provence.<,
My wife does the driving - I do the navigating.
Stu Dudley
Jan 27th, 2010, 01:26 PM
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To all who were wonderful in replying, thanks! 5 years ago was the first time we went to Europe (Italy). We took the train from Rome to Florence, then to Venice. But we stayed near Siena and had a rental car for the week. We loved that week going to the small towns in Tuscany. For this trip, we are trying to decide when to use the train and when to rent a car. My husband, Gordon, wants to drive as much as possible. He loves to drive. I do the navigating although this trip I hope to have the help of a GPS. So here are my thoughts so far: We fly into Milan. Then take the train to Lake Como. Then we need to rent a car, maybe by going back to Milan. From there we will drive toward Bologna stopping at the Lamborgini and Maserati factories. My husband has owned a Delorean for 22 years (the Back to the Future car) and loves sports cars. Then we are going to Cinque Terra. I check the trains and it seems like you have to take 2-3 trains to get there, so Gordon wants to keep the car and drive to Cinque Terra. I fouind a hotel that will let us park the car since you really don't use a car in CT. After CT we are on to France. We plan to go to the Luberon area for 4 nights and that is where we want a B&B. Then we will go to Nice for night and then fly out of Nice back home. So if Gordon has his way, we will only use the train a little and drive more. He feels that when we are on the train, we really don't get to see much.
Jan 27th, 2010, 03:03 PM
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Go to AutoEurope (www.autoeurope.com) & do the car math. Like I stated, the basic rental for an Italian car is higher than a car rented in France. Also, in Italy you must purchase CDW. If you rent a car in France & charge it on your gold CC (or higher), CDW is included at no cost to you. Plus your car will sit idle and incur rental costs while on the CT. You'll also have the other-country drop-off charge.
My suggestion:
1. Drive from Bologne to La Spezia and turn in the car. You may have to take a taxi from the rental office to the train station - that's what we did. Take the short train from La Spezia to the CT
2. Take the train from where you are on the CT to Nice - with a train change in Genoa. We had lunch in Genoa. Pick up a rental at the Nice train station & use it for the remainder of your trip. When we took the train from La Spezia to Nice, it stopped at several CT villages - but not all of them. You may have to take a short train from one CT village to another CT village - depending on where you are staying on the CT.
Here is where I research train schedules
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
You may need to find schedules from La Spezia to Nice & then click on "intermediate stops" to find out the stops on the CT.
If you have the funds and your husband REALLY likes to drive - then ignore the above. Like I stated - the drive from the CT to Nice is not that much fun for us. We've done it about 4 times.
Stu Dudley
My suggestion:
1. Drive from Bologne to La Spezia and turn in the car. You may have to take a taxi from the rental office to the train station - that's what we did. Take the short train from La Spezia to the CT
2. Take the train from where you are on the CT to Nice - with a train change in Genoa. We had lunch in Genoa. Pick up a rental at the Nice train station & use it for the remainder of your trip. When we took the train from La Spezia to Nice, it stopped at several CT villages - but not all of them. You may have to take a short train from one CT village to another CT village - depending on where you are staying on the CT.
Here is where I research train schedules
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
You may need to find schedules from La Spezia to Nice & then click on "intermediate stops" to find out the stops on the CT.
If you have the funds and your husband REALLY likes to drive - then ignore the above. Like I stated - the drive from the CT to Nice is not that much fun for us. We've done it about 4 times.
Stu Dudley
Jan 28th, 2010, 07:53 AM
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Stu, We checked out your recommendation for a B&B in Provence. Kevin already got back to us and said he can give us 3 of our 4 days. He recommended that we stop for the night first somewhere between CT and his place since we can't book with him that first night. Any thought of where?
Thanks
Cathy
Thanks
Cathy
Jan 29th, 2010, 03:11 AM
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cccarpenter,
If your husband loves to drive -- to the point of going to auto museums -- he really won't have the problems stu encounters in Italy. As he's now told you, he doesn't drive at all!
If Kevin Widrow has suggested you spend a night somewhere on the Riviera before coming to his place, why not drive the car to an Italian town near the French border and spend the night there? It will save you hours of time and hassle, plus not deprive your husband of the fun of driving. The train travel Stu Dudley has suggested to you is so odd I can't understand why he is suggesting it to someone you posted loves to drive. There is no reason to go to La Spezia --- which is in the opposite direction AWAY from France if you are in le Cinque Terre -- to pay extra dollars for a long train ride to France. Why do you want to haul your luggage through the Genova train station changing trains, and again through NIce?
Seriously, until you or your husband call a rental agency to find for yourself the cost of the drop-off fee for YOUR trip, and do an actual cost benefit analysis including train tickets and the cost of a Nice hotel (not cheap), I highly recommend you not be booking hotels or planning to give up so much time on YOUR trip taking unnecessarily long train rides and spending hours in car rental offices. Your husband loves to drive. There may not be any reason for you to give up your car at any point.
AutoEurope is not the only car rental vendor in Italy, so you should comparison shop. But even if you decide to use AutoEurope, CALL THEM. Do not rely on their website only to make deals or know what's available. The person who says this most often on Fodor's is not me but bobthenavigator -- and I doubt Stu Dudley is going to disagree with the advice of bobthenavigator about the need to ALWAYS call AutoEurope when you use them.
I used to believe the advice it was always "too costly" to drop-off a car in a different country. But I took a trip where, after I'd called the rental company and got the real numbers from a real agent, it turned out the actual dollar difference for dropping off the car in another country was less than $10 per day -- meaning, instead of paying $56 per day for the car, I paid $65 per day. Not everyone would want to spend close to $10 a day that way for their trip, but I did. And it saved me all the time-consuming hassle and train trips Stu is suggesting you go through. The Riviera trains are extremely slow.
But it may be that the costs aren't worth it to you. But don't drive to La Spezia to drop off your car! If you want to give up the car before crossing the French border, the last rental office in Italy to do that is in San Remo. But there are towns just before you reach San Remo that are more scenic places to spend the night, like Cervo, Noli or Bordighera. Drive the car to San Remo the next morning and take the train to Nice to rent another car. Use Tripadvisor to learn which hotels are best for you -- and again, I'm surprised Stu hasn't told you that you should also be double checking his recommendations on Tripadvisor.
But if you do decide to take the car to Le Cinque Terre and buy train tickets to head for France, at least spare yourself the time waster of going to La Spezia. People drive from le Cinque Terre to Rapallo all the time -- it takes about a half hour -- and enjoy it. The AutoEurope drop off in Rapallo is very convenient to the train station, and it's on your way to France, not in the opposite direction. Still, I see no reason why your husband shouldn't drive the car as close to the French border as you like.
have a great trip
If your husband loves to drive -- to the point of going to auto museums -- he really won't have the problems stu encounters in Italy. As he's now told you, he doesn't drive at all!
If Kevin Widrow has suggested you spend a night somewhere on the Riviera before coming to his place, why not drive the car to an Italian town near the French border and spend the night there? It will save you hours of time and hassle, plus not deprive your husband of the fun of driving. The train travel Stu Dudley has suggested to you is so odd I can't understand why he is suggesting it to someone you posted loves to drive. There is no reason to go to La Spezia --- which is in the opposite direction AWAY from France if you are in le Cinque Terre -- to pay extra dollars for a long train ride to France. Why do you want to haul your luggage through the Genova train station changing trains, and again through NIce?
Seriously, until you or your husband call a rental agency to find for yourself the cost of the drop-off fee for YOUR trip, and do an actual cost benefit analysis including train tickets and the cost of a Nice hotel (not cheap), I highly recommend you not be booking hotels or planning to give up so much time on YOUR trip taking unnecessarily long train rides and spending hours in car rental offices. Your husband loves to drive. There may not be any reason for you to give up your car at any point.
AutoEurope is not the only car rental vendor in Italy, so you should comparison shop. But even if you decide to use AutoEurope, CALL THEM. Do not rely on their website only to make deals or know what's available. The person who says this most often on Fodor's is not me but bobthenavigator -- and I doubt Stu Dudley is going to disagree with the advice of bobthenavigator about the need to ALWAYS call AutoEurope when you use them.
I used to believe the advice it was always "too costly" to drop-off a car in a different country. But I took a trip where, after I'd called the rental company and got the real numbers from a real agent, it turned out the actual dollar difference for dropping off the car in another country was less than $10 per day -- meaning, instead of paying $56 per day for the car, I paid $65 per day. Not everyone would want to spend close to $10 a day that way for their trip, but I did. And it saved me all the time-consuming hassle and train trips Stu is suggesting you go through. The Riviera trains are extremely slow.
But it may be that the costs aren't worth it to you. But don't drive to La Spezia to drop off your car! If you want to give up the car before crossing the French border, the last rental office in Italy to do that is in San Remo. But there are towns just before you reach San Remo that are more scenic places to spend the night, like Cervo, Noli or Bordighera. Drive the car to San Remo the next morning and take the train to Nice to rent another car. Use Tripadvisor to learn which hotels are best for you -- and again, I'm surprised Stu hasn't told you that you should also be double checking his recommendations on Tripadvisor.
But if you do decide to take the car to Le Cinque Terre and buy train tickets to head for France, at least spare yourself the time waster of going to La Spezia. People drive from le Cinque Terre to Rapallo all the time -- it takes about a half hour -- and enjoy it. The AutoEurope drop off in Rapallo is very convenient to the train station, and it's on your way to France, not in the opposite direction. Still, I see no reason why your husband shouldn't drive the car as close to the French border as you like.
have a great trip
Jan 29th, 2010, 08:20 AM
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>>As he's now told you, he doesn't drive at all!<,
Listen Zeppole/stepsbeyond - I thought you might tone down the personal name calling attacks once you changed your screen name - guess I was wrong.
My wife does most (not all) the driving - and guess what - I've listened to her complain about this driving route several times. Many, many others have also said it is a tough drive. You live along the Italian Riveria - it is an easy drive for you, just like driving in San Francisco is easy for me.
I don't see what is "so odd" about driving from Bologne to the CT and instead of letting the car sit in a parking lot (fee) for several days and pay rental on it - drive to La Spezia, return the car, and take the very short train to the CT town. Several days later, take the train into Nice, where you would not need to rent a car till you leave for Provence. There may be other options - but this one seems very reasonable to me. Like I stated to the OP - do the math - then decide.
>>and I doubt Stu Dudley is going to disagree with the advice of bobthenavigator about the need to ALWAYS call AutoEurope when you use them.<<
Stop the name calling !!! I almost ALWAYS recommend calling Auto Europe to make the final deal - somehow you missed that in my past posts. Use the web site to do "rough" estimating and finding locations/hours of rental return offices. Then call them & ask about their AAA/AARP or Kemwel rates.
>>I'm surprised Stu hasn't told you that you should also be double checking his recommendations on Tripadvisor.<<
There is no need for using my name in this statment. I have never posted to Tripadvisor if that is what you are stating. If you are just criticizing me for not recommending that the Op should double-check with tripadvisor - that's a pretty strange statement - nobody else advised it either. I assume the OP is "wise" enough to always check multiple sources.
>>The AutoEurope drop off in Rapallo <<
Does AutoEurope really have an office there?
Stu Dudley
Listen Zeppole/stepsbeyond - I thought you might tone down the personal name calling attacks once you changed your screen name - guess I was wrong.
My wife does most (not all) the driving - and guess what - I've listened to her complain about this driving route several times. Many, many others have also said it is a tough drive. You live along the Italian Riveria - it is an easy drive for you, just like driving in San Francisco is easy for me.
I don't see what is "so odd" about driving from Bologne to the CT and instead of letting the car sit in a parking lot (fee) for several days and pay rental on it - drive to La Spezia, return the car, and take the very short train to the CT town. Several days later, take the train into Nice, where you would not need to rent a car till you leave for Provence. There may be other options - but this one seems very reasonable to me. Like I stated to the OP - do the math - then decide.
>>and I doubt Stu Dudley is going to disagree with the advice of bobthenavigator about the need to ALWAYS call AutoEurope when you use them.<<
Stop the name calling !!! I almost ALWAYS recommend calling Auto Europe to make the final deal - somehow you missed that in my past posts. Use the web site to do "rough" estimating and finding locations/hours of rental return offices. Then call them & ask about their AAA/AARP or Kemwel rates.
>>I'm surprised Stu hasn't told you that you should also be double checking his recommendations on Tripadvisor.<<
There is no need for using my name in this statment. I have never posted to Tripadvisor if that is what you are stating. If you are just criticizing me for not recommending that the Op should double-check with tripadvisor - that's a pretty strange statement - nobody else advised it either. I assume the OP is "wise" enough to always check multiple sources.
>>The AutoEurope drop off in Rapallo <<
Does AutoEurope really have an office there?
Stu Dudley
Jan 29th, 2010, 09:02 AM
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<<As he's now told you, he doesn't drive at all!>>
Just because he's not behind the actual wheel doesn't mean he hasn't noticed what the road conditions are on thousands and thousands of European kilometers. Jeez! A really far-reaching attempt at criticism, for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
I completely agree about how unpleasant that drive is, BTW.
Yes, AutoEurope has a Rapallo office.
Just because he's not behind the actual wheel doesn't mean he hasn't noticed what the road conditions are on thousands and thousands of European kilometers. Jeez! A really far-reaching attempt at criticism, for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
I completely agree about how unpleasant that drive is, BTW.
Yes, AutoEurope has a Rapallo office.
Jan 30th, 2010, 03:37 PM
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>>But I do think it is quite odd to steer somebody going to France in the opposite direction from France to drop off a car!<<
from cccarpenter;
>we will drive toward Bologna stopping at the Lamborgini and Maserati factories. My husband has owned a Delorean for 22 years (the Back to the Future car) and loves sports cars. Then we are going to Cinque Terra.<
The OP starts the drive to the CT in/near Bologne (I presume). The route I would probably choose from Bologne goes west on the freeway past Parma, then turns south and ends at La Spezia. Freeway all the way. Dump the car in La Spezia & from La Spezia it is a VERY short train trip to anywhere on the CT.
The route to Rapello either goes through Genoa via freeway & all the confusiion/congestion & tunners there, then backtracks to Rapello - or on smaller winding non-freeway roads to Rapello. Ballparking, it looks like this would be twice as long as the La Spezia option. Then it is a longer train trip to the CT.
Am I interpreting something wrong?
>>That's the last time I'll be nice enough not to point out that Kevin Widrow is a friend of yours and you post on his behalf because if he did himself it would be advertising, and Fodor's would pull it.<<
Kevin is an internet friend. He's given me some suggestions about hikes & scenic drives via Internet when we were planning a trip to his area in Provence. He suggested that I drop by his B&B for a visit - which we did. Lots of other people have recommended Kevin's place also - Underhill on this thread.
"American Bathrooms" have large roomy showers with shower heads that put out a lot of water in a spray that us "Americans" prefer over baths & whimpy shower heads that are quite common in France.
Request - please don't use my name again in any of your posts. I'll ignore your posts too.
Stu Dudley
from cccarpenter;
>we will drive toward Bologna stopping at the Lamborgini and Maserati factories. My husband has owned a Delorean for 22 years (the Back to the Future car) and loves sports cars. Then we are going to Cinque Terra.<
The OP starts the drive to the CT in/near Bologne (I presume). The route I would probably choose from Bologne goes west on the freeway past Parma, then turns south and ends at La Spezia. Freeway all the way. Dump the car in La Spezia & from La Spezia it is a VERY short train trip to anywhere on the CT.
The route to Rapello either goes through Genoa via freeway & all the confusiion/congestion & tunners there, then backtracks to Rapello - or on smaller winding non-freeway roads to Rapello. Ballparking, it looks like this would be twice as long as the La Spezia option. Then it is a longer train trip to the CT.
Am I interpreting something wrong?
>>That's the last time I'll be nice enough not to point out that Kevin Widrow is a friend of yours and you post on his behalf because if he did himself it would be advertising, and Fodor's would pull it.<<
Kevin is an internet friend. He's given me some suggestions about hikes & scenic drives via Internet when we were planning a trip to his area in Provence. He suggested that I drop by his B&B for a visit - which we did. Lots of other people have recommended Kevin's place also - Underhill on this thread.
"American Bathrooms" have large roomy showers with shower heads that put out a lot of water in a spray that us "Americans" prefer over baths & whimpy shower heads that are quite common in France.
Request - please don't use my name again in any of your posts. I'll ignore your posts too.
Stu Dudley
