Skin - book review

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dale luis menezes

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Jul 19, 2011, 6:13:43 AM7/19/11
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Dears,

Do check my book review of Margaret Mascarenhas' SKIN which appeared in Gomantak Times today at the following link: http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/2011/07/dna-of-slavery.html

Dale Luis Menezes

Find my writings @ www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com

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dale luis menezes

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Jul 20, 2011, 12:10:47 AM7/20/11
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Dears,

Do check my review of Margaret Mascarenhas' novel titled SKIN @ the following link: http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/2011/07/dna-of-slavery.html

saxtti viegas

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Jul 21, 2011, 3:12:38 AM7/21/11
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nice review Dale 
Savia
--
Savia Viegas
374, Quinta De Sao Joaquim,
Xetmalem, Carmona,
Salcete Goa 403717
Res-School 0832 2744511

Jason Keith Fernandes

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Jul 21, 2011, 3:22:43 AM7/21/11
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I know right?

'mitochondrial narration'...omg, i just cant get over it!
--
-----------------------------------------------------
Read my thoughts at www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------
For a successful revolution it is not enough that there is discontent. What is required is a profound and thorough conviction of the justice, necessity and importance of political and social rights.
(B R Ambedkar)

sandralobo

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Jul 21, 2011, 5:00:32 AM7/21/11
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Dale,

Thank you for this review which opens my interest to read the book. In 19th Century there was a very interesting genealogical polemics around an important Catholic Brahmin family which precisely touched this hidden side of Goan miscegenation, raising problems of caste and race purity.

Sandra

________________________________

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de dale luis menezes
Enviada: ter 19-07-2011 11:13
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review


Dears,

Do check my book review of Margaret Mascarenhas' SKIN which appeared in Gomantak Times today at the following link: http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/2011/07/dna-of-slavery.html

Dale Luis Menezes

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Jason Keith Fernandes

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Jul 21, 2011, 6:00:54 AM7/21/11
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It turns out my last message was massively misunderstood by many readers on this list.

Just to make it clear, I hugely enjoyed the review, and absolutely LOVED the phrasing of 'mitochondrial narration'.

It has a poesy to it, evokes the neologism of the postcolonial scholars and is so frigging innovative!

apologies for the spamming!

J

Jason Keith Fernandes

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Jul 21, 2011, 6:04:00 AM7/21/11
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Hey Sandra,

Would you like to elaborate on this 'important Catholic Brahmin family'?

J

Mafalda Mimoso

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Jul 21, 2011, 8:00:29 AM7/21/11
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Hi Dale,

I liked it very much and shared it on my Facebook wall. J

Mafalda

 

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] Em nome de saxtti viegas
Enviada: quinta-feira, 21 de Julho de 2011 08:13
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review

 

nice review Dale 

Savia

On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:43 PM, dale luis menezes <dale_m...@rediffmail.com> wrote:

Dears,

Do check my book review of Margaret Mascarenhas' SKIN which appeared in Gomantak Times today at the following link: http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/2011/07/dna-of-slavery.html

Dale Luis Menezes

Find my writings @ www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com


Treat yourself at a restaurant, spa, resort and much more with Rediff Deal ho jaye!

sandralobo

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Jul 21, 2011, 9:59:14 AM7/21/11
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It is the Costa family from Margão and I'm going to touch that polemic in my thesis for its implications on the elites self perception and political use of the insinuation.

S,

________________________________

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de Jason Keith Fernandes
Enviada: qui 21-07-2011 11:04
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review


Hey Sandra,

Would you like to elaborate on this 'important Catholic Brahmin family'?

J


On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:00 AM, sandralobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:


Dale,

Thank you for this review which opens my interest to read the book. In 19th Century there was a very interesting genealogical polemics around an important Catholic Brahmin family which precisely touched this hidden side of Goan miscegenation, raising problems of caste and race purity.

Sandra

________________________________

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de dale luis menezes
Enviada: ter 19-07-2011 11:13
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review


Dears,

Do check my book review of Margaret Mascarenhas' SKIN which appeared in Gomantak Times today at the following link: http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/2011/07/dna-of-slavery.html

Dale Luis Menezes

Find my writings @ www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com <http://www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/>


--
-----------------------------------------------------
Read my thoughts at www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com <http://www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com/>

winmail.dat

saxtti viegas

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Jul 21, 2011, 6:55:14 AM7/21/11
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Jason don't do a Jerry Pinto act Instead lets draw the curtain for more books and more  reviews

Nazareth, Peter

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Jul 21, 2011, 5:39:10 PM7/21/11
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Folks,

My father did not believe in caste and he brought up his children in Uganda to know nothing about caste.  Apparently my paternal grandfather in Goa who died before I was born did not believe in caste because it was man-made.

But my maternal grandfather in Malaysia apparently believed in caste.  I first met him in 1960, when he was 76 and blind.  I celebrated my 20th birthday in his house in Kuala Lumpur in 1960.

He was married twice.  He  had three children by his first wife, who died.  He married again and my grandmother had fourteen children, of which my mother was the eldest.

In my large maternal family, there are, through marriage, Chinese, Tamil, Sikh, Malay, Eurasian, Malacca Portuguese, Australian, and Goan... 

My grandfather called me up to his room and told me his story because he said I was a writer and he wanted me to tell his story someday.

I told it fictionally as "Rosie's Theme", published in Malay translation in Dewan Sastera with a boxed article about my real grandfather, and was included in Jerry Pinto's book.  It was published in Confluence, followed by an essay called "Telling Grandpa's Story", which was another way of telling his story.  A photo was included of me carrying my eldest grandson, Christopher.

My daughter Kathy is married to an American, Randy Eccles.  I have two grandsons, Christopher and Aidan.  I asked my wife, Mary, a few years ago, "When you think of your grandsons, do you think of them as Goan or as American?"  "I think of them as my grandsons," she replied.

I met my uncle Gerry in Kuala Lumpur in 2006, following my presentations at the National University of Singapore's centennial celebration. He told me something I had not known: the day my grandfather knew he had created a multicultural family and accepted it. This was just before Jerry Pinto's book was published, which was the first time to my recollection the story was published in a volume about Goans.

Best.

Peter Nazareth


From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of sandralobo [sandr...@netcabo.pt]
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 8:59 AM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review

It is the Costa family from Margão and I'm going to touch that polemic in my thesis for its implications on the elites self perception and political use of the insinuation.
 
S,


De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de Jason Keith Fernandes
Enviada: qui 21-07-2011 11:04
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review

Hey Sandra,

Would you like to elaborate on this 'important Catholic Brahmin family'?

J

On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 10:00 AM, sandralobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:
Dale,

Thank you for this review which opens my interest to read the book. In 19th Century there was a very interesting genealogical polemics around an important Catholic Brahmin family which precisely touched this hidden side of Goan miscegenation, raising problems of caste and race purity.

Sandra

________________________________

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de dale luis menezes
Enviada: ter 19-07-2011 11:13
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review


Dears,

Do check my book review of Margaret Mascarenhas' SKIN which appeared in Gomantak Times today at the following link: http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/2011/07/dna-of-slavery.html

Dale Luis Menezes

Find my writings @ www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com




--
-----------------------------------------------------
Read my thoughts at www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com

Helga do Rosario Gomes

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Jul 21, 2011, 7:59:33 PM7/21/11
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Do they know that you will make reference to them Sandra?:) because several of them live in Portugal?:) I think I got the 'elite self perception' but I am still mulling over 'political use of insunuation' what's that?
Helga

Sent from my iPad

> <winmail.dat>

margaret.m...@gmail.com

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Jul 22, 2011, 12:51:24 AM7/22/11
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Peter, with a little tweaking, what you justt wrote is a pretty good creative non-fiction piece.
Best,
Margaret

Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA


From: "Nazareth, Peter" <peter-n...@uiowa.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 21:39:10 +0000

dale luis menezes

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Jul 22, 2011, 1:06:43 AM7/22/11
to The Third Thursday Goa Book Club


On Jul 21, 5:00 pm, "Mafalda Mimoso" <mafalda.mim...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Dale,
>
> I liked it very much and shared it on my Facebook wall. J
>
> Mafalda
> Dear Mafalda,

Thanks very much!:-)

Dale

> De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:goa-bo...@googlegroups.com]
> Em nome de saxtti viegas
> Enviada: quinta-feira, 21 de Julho de 2011 08:13
> Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
> Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review
>
> nice review Dale
>
> Savia
>
> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 3:43 PM, dale luis menezes
>
> <dale_mene...@rediffmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dears,
>
> Do check my book review of Margaret Mascarenhas' SKIN which appeared in
> Gomantak Times today at the following link:http://daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/2011/07/dna-of-slavery.html
>
> Dale Luis Menezes
>
> Find my writings @www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com
>
> <http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.co...
> atureline.htm@Middle?> Erro! Nome de ficheiro não especificado.
>
> Treat yourself at a restaurant, spa, resort and much more with Rediff Deal
> ho jaye!
> <http://track.rediff.com/click?url=___http://dealhojaye.rediff.com?sc_...
> ilsignature___&cmp=signature&lnk=rediffmailsignature&newservice=deals>

sandralobo

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Jul 22, 2011, 6:48:13 AM7/22/11
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Helga,

I will make reference to many families in Goa and its intellectuals, and I have not contacted most of them. My wish is to make them speak and understood in the colonial context. Actually I've contacted the family but did not bring up this controversy because by the time I was not even aware of it. I want to make it clear that my wish is not to create controversy and that my interest in this controversy is not to clarify the supposed ancestry, for it is indifferent, but how caste and race were read in the civilizational hierarchy in the 19th Century and its practical implications. This supposed ancestry was used by through the 19th by political adversaries, both native and Portuguese, to disturb the family's public image, which as you know was politically very influential. Racism was a fact which was a part of the mind set of all elite groups, both Goan and metropolitan, and had many faces.

Sandra

________________________________

winmail.dat

Nazareth, Peter

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Jul 22, 2011, 10:59:40 AM7/22/11
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Margaret,

Another thing that happened during my 2006 visit of four days to Kuala Lumpur.  My cousin Ernest, fifth child of my grandfather's daughter by his first wife, took my wife and me (with Sally, his wife, who is Chinese) out for a Hakka dinner.  The restaurant was open air, a few hundred yards from the towers you see in the movie starring Catherine Zeta-Jones.  It was also a few hundred yards from my grandfather's house (the barrack-like structure mentioned  in my "Rosie's Theme").  So he drove us past my grandfather's (now empty) place.  In "Rosie's Theme", it is mentioned that the landlord decided to displace everyone from the building to he could put up a new, modern building. My grandfather took him to court on the grounds that it was cruel to displace a blind man from his home.  The judge ruled in his favor: the landlord had to wait until my grandfather, then 77, passed away.  My grandfather lived to be nearly 97, by which time the landlord could not prove he had enough money to replace the old building (a Malaysian law).  So the barrack-like building, looking like part of a village, was still there.  Ernest told us that it had now been declared a historical monument.

As for the Malay uncle mentioned in "Rosie's Theme" (the real one on whom the fictional one is based): he died two months ago at the age of 96.  I met him in 2006, and he massaged my back and neck and showed me how to do yoga.  Incidentally, his wife was my aunt Vivian, who became Fatima after getting marred.  She was a twin.  Her twin sister Diana came to Uganda and got married to my cousin Joe Nazareth.  They went to settle in KL with their son Rosario.  Joe died in 1995.  His mother died in KL in her nineties.  They had a Chinese servant whom she taught to speak (a pidgin form of) Swahili.

As I am sure you know, when it comes to writing about the (Goan) family, you are expected to say only the good things the family members tell you.  And even if you try to do it, Goans assume fiction is gossip is something negative and so they read it as something negative and overlook the creativeness and structure and human believability.

In any case, I said two decades ago that the real battle against the dominating Europeanized colonizer (the battle to decolonize the mind, an idea Ngugi wa Thiong'o got from my radio play "X", is taking place in the field of literary criticism, that is, the power to interpret, and to interpret by breaking given structures and endlessly creating new structures, as I have done in my essays "Heading Them Off at the Pass: The Fiction of Ishmael Reed" and "Elvis as Anthology" onto/into which I piggyback Goan stories.

Best.

Peter


From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of margaret.m...@gmail.com [margaret.m...@gmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:51 PM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Skin - book review

George Menezes

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Jul 22, 2011, 10:13:26 AM7/22/11
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I agree with  you Savia
 
George

Anne Ketteringham

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:23:10 AM7/23/11
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Peter,

Get all this together for a creative writing non-fiction piece as Margaret M suggests and let us continue with more books and reviews to satiate the minds of others like Savia and myself.  Private emails on specific subjects serve a better purpose.

Best wishes

Anne

Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا‎

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Jul 23, 2011, 4:34:22 AM7/23/11
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I half-agree and half-disagree with Savia :-)

Yes, we DO need more reviews, specially of Goa-related books. (And
btw, do you know that copies of Biblio [http://www.biblio-india.org/],
the book review mag from New
Delhi now sell at Broadway for Rs 70? I bought a copy the other day
and quite enjoyed it.

Where I don't agree:

Sorry to go off-topic here, but Jerry Pinto is our member and it is my
duty to say this ... The "Jerry Pinto act" if I understood Savia
right [http://bit.ly/oE0O1A] was to me a crucial job. It played the
role of reminding New Delhi that, while they indeed have a powerful
media, they cannot cover the rest of the country simply by way of
cliches, meaningless soundbytes, and 30-second "analysis". We in Goa
have faced this problem repeatedly too: whether it is toppling
politicians, crimes against tourists (including Scarlett), drug abuse,
and other complex issues... FN
--
FN +91-832-2409490 or +91-9822122436 f...@goa-india.org
Saligao Goa IN http://fn.goa-india.org Skype: fredericknoronha

Margaret Mascarenhas

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Jul 23, 2011, 5:30:46 AM7/23/11
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Fred, why aren't enough of our writers (or publishers!) sending out more of their books for review outside Goa and Goa-centric netlists? Or are they?
Margaret

2011/7/23 Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا <frederic...@gmail.com>

saxtti viegas

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Jul 23, 2011, 5:58:39 AM7/23/11
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I put Jerry in my phrase book.  Doing a Jerry act would mean and x thing. I am a Jerry friend too so it was not to hurt but to note... okay
Savia

Margaret Mascarenhas

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Jul 23, 2011, 6:12:35 AM7/23/11
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Dear Sandra,

Are you saying that your theoretical conclusions are exclusively drawn from government archives, caste hierarchy statistics, and other public/historical records? Because I'm not sure I understand in what manner you can make specific families "speak" or be understood in the colonial context without them actually "speaking", as it were, from their own point of view/oral history on the subject. Wouldn't that be relevant in an academic context? Also I didn't understand what you mean by genealogical polemics.
Best,
Margaret

Margaret Mascarenhas

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Jul 23, 2011, 6:23:02 AM7/23/11
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Dear Anne,

I believe Peter was following the thread on diversified genealogy in Goa from a personal pov and not confusing this list with my private email account ;) Also perhaps we have room to examine creative non-fiction that hasn't yet been published, but might be.

By the way, how is your Navelcar book coming along? I'm curating two shows for him this year--one in Oct sponsored by the Portuguese Consulate in Goa, and one retrospective in Delhi later. He's very happy.
Best,
Margaret

Silviano Barbosa

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Jul 23, 2011, 11:26:25 AM7/23/11
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******************************

Should writers focus on ills of society and pay for it?

 

I  am glad someone thought about this writers group and implemented this forum for the benefit of Goan writers. It was long needed, so someone could vent out their feelings, frustrations, anxieties on this forum. THANK YOU!


Let me introduce myself.

My name is Silviano C. Barbosa and I am the author of the Canadian/Goan novel, “The Sixth Night” (Sottvi Raat) published in 2004 by Goa Raj Books (My self-published imprint,  for those who feel good to hear this word from their high pedestal, thank you, even though for others  it’s ok to pay for someone else to get it published under another so-called publisher, just so it is not called self-published).


The main objective of this post is to find out if any other Goan author suffered like me for writing a novel based on realities of social life in Goa: specifically in my case –“the caste system”  and the institution of "gaunkaria" which have been intricately entwined for thousands of years in Goa.


Since no author touched upon this so-called controversial subject, I went ahead and gave it a treatise in my novel. As soon as it was published and reviewed by Ben Antao  on Goan Observer, dwelling on its caste system proclivities, I got a barrage of hate-letters and threats from the gaunkars and “Chaddo” caste apologists and this book was almost banished.


I wonder what was controversial in this book? By all historical accounts, aren’t 95% of Goans, the orginal people of Goa before (1961) whose occupations in life consisted of fishermen, labourers, carpenters, dhobis, toddy-tappers, etc. ?They are  the real natives of Goa for over thousands of years  who lived in their own homes in their own lands until they were usurped by the FIRST IMMIGRANTS (so-called ghattis) of Goa, the Saraswats (Bamonns) and their warrior caste armies of Kshatryas (Chaddos)?


These Bamons and Chaddos took over the land in Goa from the Shudras and the tribals of Goa like Kunbis, Velips, etc and sent them to the hills (Otherwise which native tribe would live in the hills leaving the fertile land behind in the first place?). And can you believe the Communidade call these native Shudras settlers (MORADORES)? Did they consult a dictionary? You think Bamonns and Chaddos would allow these Shudras to come to their villages and settle in prime areas of their villages after them? This confirms the Shudras were in Goa long before the so-called gaunkars.


Eventually the Bamonns and Chaddos became the whole and sole owners of Goa and the exclusive members of Gaunkaria, later known as “Communidade” and received the zonn (share) and were hence called zonnkars for life with their male lineage. And the Shudra community became perpetual tenants, slaves  and landless. Even the natives of Australia, Canada and other countries have their land-rights recognized, except in Goa and in India.


This continued till today and even in the Church, Bamonns and Chaddos distinguished themselves using the red coloured confrade in the procession to demonstrate their superiority and could exclusively celebrate the patron saint of the village, when they became Christian. The Shudras must wear the Blue confrade or else. And the Portuguese Bishops and priests kept quiet and closed their eyes and ears and let this go on exclusively in Goa and may be rest of India too . This could never happen in Europe and certainly not in America or Canada. And the POPE did not know about this? How could these Christians let this happen? And the whole world raised  a furor in South Africa because of apartheid. My God! look at Goa  even today. There are wards like “Bamonwaddo”, Mazilwaddo, Mharvaddo, “Boyam-vaddo” in Goa where apartheid started thousands of years ago and  United Nations is not aware of this? And no one seems to be in hurry to change this.


I cannot believe that Shudras CAN NEVER BE GAUNKARS OF GOA.  Is it their fault that they lived in Goa before other immigrants invaded Goa? So WHEN WILL SHUDRAS SEE THEIR LIBERATION? Ex-CM Bandodkar helped a little with the tenancy legislation. Today’s  gaunkars would rather sell the Communidade land to the other recent immigrants but would never  give an inch of their land willingly to the real pre-1961 Shudra natives of Goa (moradores).

 

Aren’t Goan novelists supposed to bring this to light? And I did. And what did I get ? A very negative response. And when a renowned Goan author wrote an article about  recent authors and writers in Goa, he only mentioned Ben Antao and Lino leitao , as the writers who have written a lot about Goan caste, which of course they did. When I wrote back to this author that he did not mention about my novel, that had extensive coverage about caste, there was no response of course.


So do writers serve to write about the society that deviates from normalcy?  A couple years ago a goanetter copied the entire chapter of my novel and pasted it on his goanet post without giving credit to the author (me) and asked what goanetters felt about this thesis from chapter 15 in my book  “Dr. B.J. Furtado’s Manuscript”. No one responded. I guess it was too hot to handle. Better to hide and let it pass.


Realize the reality!
I don't see any activists in Goa  with the slogan - ABOLISH THE SO-CALLED FAKE GAUNKARY  IN GOA UNLESS YOU INCLUDE SHUDRA MEMBERSHIP.

For more details, read the novel “The Sixth Night” even if it hurts you when you turn every page. Remember you are not to blame for the sins of your ancestors!


Silviano Barbosa,


Gaunkar of the Universe!

Toronto, Canada!

July 22, 2011




Nazareth, Peter

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Jul 23, 2011, 10:45:36 AM7/23/11
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Folks,

Since we are discussing reviews, let me mention my particular experience.

In the mid-seventies, I received a letter from Ivar Ivask, the editor of "World Literature Today", a quarterly published in Norman, Oklahoma, inviting me to write reviews of books in the field of African Literature.  WLT would send me the books and my reviews had to be of 500 words.  This was a challenge to me since I had never written such short reviews. I decided I would try to pack into the short reviews information, a sense of what was in the work, and make my reviews compact and resonant.  So I replied accepting, on two conditions: that I would not be confined to African literature, and that I could send in volunteer reviews (that is, of books I read which had not been sent to me by WLT).  Ivask agreed.  I began sending in volunteer reviews.  Among them were reviews of Singapore Literature--I had been given a great foundation for doing work on Singapore Literature in my first interview done in 1977 with Edwin Thumboo, the unofficial poet laureate of Singapore, a six-hour interview published world wide in many extracts and now included in its entire form in my book on Thumboo and now available on-line--which many Singapore writers used as blurbs to their books. And I began to send in reviews of books by Goans, sometimes slipping in references to other Goan books, which got published too.

A few years ago, a book on twentieth century writing in English was published in two volumes consisting of selections from WLT.  Among them were three reviews by me: Simon Tay, Alien Asian (Singapore); a book by a Lebanese writer (the name and title escape me right now); and a novel by Nuruddin Farah (Somalia).  I decided that if they could use my WLT reviews, so could I.  So when I wrote my Foreword to "Pivoting on the Point of Return", I wrote a long essay about my adventures in editing a volume of Goan literature within which I included my WLT reviews of Goan books.

WLT went through many changes.  The length of review was increased to 750 words.  The size and format of WLT was changed several times, leaving very few pages for reviews.  My subscription ran out and I did not notice.  I stopped receiving books to review.  So my time with WLT was over.

I think one of my best reviews was of a book of poems by the Caribbean trumpeter, Shake Keane.  I tried to write the review like a jazz solo on trumpet and I think I succeeded.

Peter Nazareth

PS In Alien Asian, Simon Tay (a poet and novelist) wrote about my "Elvis as Anthology" class, and I mentioned this in my WLT review.  So the class and Elvis and I are mentioned in the two volume set of Twentieth Century Literature in English.  I had nothing with the selection of the three reviews out of about 160 reviews I wrote for WLT.  Many of those reviews are now being purchased on-line.


From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of saxtti viegas [sax...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 4:58 AM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

augusto pinto

unread,
Jul 23, 2011, 2:28:53 PM7/23/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear Silvano

I hope the publishers of The Last Prabhu sends you the book to review: see http://goabooks.wordpress.com/2011/05/22/the-last-prabhu-a-hunt-for-roots-dna-ancient-documents-and-migration-in-goa-on-openlibrary-org/

Cheers
Augusto
--


Augusto Pinto
40, Novo Portugal,
Moira, Bardez,
Goa, India
E pint...@gmail.com or ypin...@yahoo.co.in
P 0832-2470336
M 9881126350

Frederick Noronha

unread,
Jul 23, 2011, 3:08:33 PM7/23/11
to The Third Thursday Goa Book Club
Dear Silviano, Thanks for joining the debate, and sharing your
experiences with your book. In part, you are right. And it is only now
that the long-deprived sub-altern classes of Goans are finding a voice
for themselves... like the Velips. That too, amidst much difficulty.

Apart from that, I think part of the problem is also that fiction in
general also gets largely ignored, and goes unreviewed, more so in
Goan society!

Other interesting studies on caste include the KN Singh's *People of
India: Goa* book, Adelyn D'Costa's, Olivinho Gomes' Village Goa, Anita
Haladi's essay (I think in the soon-to-be-out-of-print Norman Dantas'
The Transforming of Goa and even Robert S Newman writing can be pretty
blunt about caste and hegemony in today's Goa.

One clarification though, this is not a "writer's" group. Rather, it
is a reader's group (hence called the Goa Book Club). Goa itself has
other writers' [http://groups.yahoo.com/group/goawriters] and
journalists [http://groups.google.com/group/goajourno] networks, with
varying membership requirements. FN

Selma Cardoso

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Jul 24, 2011, 2:21:30 AM7/24/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Commissioner for NRI Affairs, Eduardo Faleiro felicitated Edila Gaitonde and launched her new book, Tulsi and Other Short Stories from Goa, at the Global Goans Convention, held in London, 23 July, 2011. Ms Gaitonde, the wife of famed freedom fighter, the late Dr Pundalik Gaitonde, wrote the collection of short fiction stories taken from her own personal experiences in Goa as seen through the eyes of a young Azorean Catholic girl. These are intimate stories which poignantly represent the human condition.
Other books released at the Convention in London were Francisco Luis Gomes 1829-1869 by Luis de Assis Correia, Delights of Goa by Alda Figueiredo and Cozinha de Goa by Dr Fatima da Gracias.
The authors were met with a warm response from the audience in London and the offering of their books was sold out within the hour.
 
If you wish to purchase these books published by Goa, 1556, please direct your enquiries to:
 
Best wishes,
Selma

jan...@yorku.ca

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Jul 24, 2011, 8:08:09 AM7/24/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Hi Silviano et al.
Just to join in the discussion on caste. There is also in my Ph.D. thesis
("Casta and Comunidade: A study of Transition in Goa's corporate, agrarian
institutions," 1992) a large section on both the Portuguese views of caste and
also my understanding of its role and relevance in contemporary Goa. My thesis
was basically a study of agrarian change in Goa since 1961, focusing on the
village of Carambolim (Karmoli) where I worked back in 1979 with the Gauda &
Naik communities of the village. Also did a study of changes in the comunidade
system, partly based on interviews with gaunkars of Carambolim (Chardo).
Unfortunately I never published that thesis though there is some excerpts in
various articles. It is available through University Microfilms (or whatever
it is called now) -- probably on-line.
Janet

--
Janet A. Rubinoff, Ph.D.
Division of Humanities
318 Founders College
York University
Toronto, ON Canada M3J 1P3
416-736-2100 X 77492

sandralobo

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Jul 24, 2011, 11:43:11 AM7/24/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear Margaret,

My research is largely based on writings produced, particularly, by Goan Catholic intellectual elites (conceived on a large sense not on the post-dreyfus meaning), which includes newspaper articles, pamphlets, discourses and debates both in parliament and in local political institutions, historical, literary, political books, etc., produced in Goa, Bombay and the metropolis. Of course, I also use metropolitan Portuguese texts and legislation. I'm approaching social and intellectual change from the end of 19th and first decades of 20th century, and I'm particularly interested on evolution of identity reflection, which tends to get more complex and diversified on the 20th century. Rochelle Pinto has given a very good contribution to these line of studies, some years ago. I'm not particularly focused on caste but caste was not only a basis to the creation of native elites but debate around caste and race was very important in the 19th century, with non linear views and implications, and I cannot ignore it. As for the genealogical polemics it was a polemics installed around the genealogy of the referred family: it could only result into a polemic and be politically used because it was thought to be an eventual problem.
I hope I've answered your interrogations and keep open to further clarification. Your questions are very interesting, because it makes me think about eventual misunderstandings I may face, as a result of my work.

I'm sorry for my pour English.

all the best,

Sandra

________________________________


Dear Sandra,

> Find my writings @ www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com <http://www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/> <http://www.daleluismenezes.blogspot.com/>


>
>
> <http://sigads.rediff.com/RealMedia/ads/click_nx.ads/www.rediffmail.com/signatureline.htm@Middle?>
>
> Treat yourself at a restaurant, spa, resort and much more with Rediff Deal ho jaye! <http://track.rediff.com/click?url=___http://dealhojaye.rediff.com?sc_cid=mailsignature___&cmp=signature&lnk=rediffmailsignature&newservice=deals>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> -----------------------------------------------------

> Read my thoughts at www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com <http://www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com/> <http://www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com/>

winmail.dat

Anne Ketteringham

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Jul 24, 2011, 12:58:34 PM7/24/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear Margaret

Yes, I understand that and have found all the inputs on this thread enlightening so would not like to dilute it with inappropriate words of concern.  Although it does mean that I do get a lot of emails that need to be viewed, read and understood.  Fascinating indeed!

My Navelcar book is progressing well with a view to having a completed draft for September.  We shall see! 

I am delighted to hear that Vamona Navelcar is getting some shows as he surely does deserve more recognition than he has had, certainly in his own country and of late.  Certainly a very worthy artist but difficult to place in a box as we discussed as he has so many styles and nuances in his work, probably because of his background and the political eras that he has lived through.

I am sure that Vamona is delighted with these shows emerging in the not too distant future.  Where will the Goa show be held Margaret?  I wish you and he good luck and a great success with these new ventures.

Just before I left Goa Vamona brought to light his Thesis painting on Ramayana done in July 1963 which took my breath away for I was not aware that he still had it in his posetion.  So different from his present styles of which there are many.  There was some damage to it but nothing that could detract from its original beauty in my view.

Best

Anne

sandralobo

unread,
Jul 24, 2011, 2:22:17 PM7/24/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear Janet,

Thank you for your input. Personally I was not aware of the extent of your work and will read it at Lisbon National Library.

Sandra

________________________________

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de jan...@yorku.ca
Enviada: dom 24-07-2011 13:08
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

winmail.dat

Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا‎

unread,
Jul 24, 2011, 4:14:46 PM7/24/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
On 24 July 2011 23:52, sandralobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:
> Dear Janet,
>
> Thank you for your input. Personally I was not aware of the extent of your work and will read it at Lisbon National Library.


Sandra, Janet's thesis is listing among the ones that Eddie Fernandes
pointed to (on Goanet) in 2007

PS: Incidentally, Dr Janet Rubinoff will be our guest at the Goa Book
Club on August 11, 2011. Details follow....

* * *

[Goanet] Goa related Dissertations - UK & North America
Eddie Fernandes
Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:15:44 -0700

------------------------------------------------------------------------
* G * O * A * N * E * T **** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GARCA BRANCA
VACATION ACCOMMODATION
LOUTULIM, SOUTH GOA.
For R&R; modern/clean amenities; serene, healthy and wholesome location

Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Following on from Frederick's list of some Goa University thesis, I checked
on the listing in the British Library and Proquest databases for Goa related
topics.

Some of the items listed below have been subsequently published as books.

Eddie Fernandes
============================================
British Thesis: Order From
http://www.bl.uk.libproxy.ucl.ac.uk/britishthesis/#prices

1. Migration and the international Catholic Goan Community
Mascarenhas-Keyes, S.V., 1987
Ph.D., London, School of Oriental and African Studies, 37-6406

2. Conversion and Catholicism in southern Goa, India.
Robinson, R., 1994
Ph.D., Cambridge, 44-5797

3. The Goan community in Kampala, Uganda.
Kuper, J.S., 1972 - 1973
Ph.D., London, External, 23-1566

4. The formation of a divided public: print, language and literature in
colonial Goa.
Pinto, R., 2003
Ph.D., London, School of Oriental and African Studies, 54-2634 (BL:
DXN079461)

====================================================
Proquest - Largely North Anerican
ORDER FROM http://wwwlib.umi.com/dxweb/search

Mobile consciousness, flexible culture: Notes on the rise and fall of Goa
Trance
Elliott, Luther C.. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 2006. Section
0146, Part 0326 377 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- New York:
New York University; 2006. Publication Number: AAT 3221945.

The invisible man: Examining AIDS and men at risk in India
Fernandes, Sangeeta. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 2006. Section
0208, Part 0459 85 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- California:
University of Southern California; 2006. Publication Number: AAT 3257842.

Education, economic participation, and women's status in India
Kenkre, Tanya S.. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 2005. Section
0176, Part 0938 184 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -
- Pennsylvania: The Pennsylvania State University; 2005. Publication
Number: AAT 3172982.

Psychedelic whiteness: Rave tourism and the materiality of race in Goa
Saldanha, Arun. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 2004. Section 0949,
Part 0326 [Ph.D. dissertation].England: Open University (United Kingdom);
2004. Publication Number: AAT C819601.

The relic state: St. Francis Xavier and the politics of ritual in
Portuguese India
Gupta, Pamila. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 2004. Section 0054, Part
0326 693 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- New York: Columbia
University; 2004. Publication Number: AAT 3120666.

A critique of new tourism, tourist subjectivity, and liberal doxa: The case
of Goa, India
Vardalos, Marianne. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 2003. Section
0267, Part 0700 343 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].Canada: York University
(Canada); 2003. Publication Number: AAT NQ99252.

History and the (un)making of identifications in literary representations
of Anglo-Indians and Goan Catholics
Gracias, Marian Josephine. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 2001.
Section 2500, Part 0593 453 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].Canada: The
University of British Columbia (Canada); 2001. Publication Number: AAT
NQ61098.

From trading post to tourism destination: Transformation of the Goan
society
Trichur, Raghuraman S.. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 2000. Section
0225, Part 0326 284 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -
- Pennsylvania: Temple University; 2000. Publication Number: AAT 9969962.

Fluoride toothpaste: A risk factor in dental fluorosis
Mascarenhas, Ana Karina Sofia de Piadade. Proquest Dissertations And
Theses 1995. Section 0766, Part 0573 348 pages; [Dr.P.H.
dissertation].United States -- Michigan: University of Michigan, School of
Public Health; 1995. Publication Number: AAT 9532447.

Saint Thomas Christians of India: A period of struggle for unity and self-
rule (1775-1787)
Thonippara, Assisi Francis. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1995.
Section 1049, Part 0330 325 pages; [H.E.D. dissertation].Vatican City
State: Pontificia Universita Gregoriana (Vatican City); 1995. Publication
Number: AAT C638906.

Exiles and orphans: Forced and state-sponsored colonizers in the Portuguese
Empire, 1550-1720. (Volumes I and II)
Coates, Timothy Joel. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1993. Section
0130, Part 0582 505 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- Minnesota:
University of Minnesota; 1993. Publication Number: AAT 9331901.

Mandalas within-beyond life: A phenomenological investigation into life and
revelation as gifts unfolding-enfolding
Coelho, Ariosto Jose. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1993. Section
0392, Part 0469 157 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States --
California: California Institute of Integral Studies; 1993. Publication
Number: AAT 9405112.

The impact of the medium of television on cultural communication in Goa
(India) as it relates to the customs and social relationships of the
families in that society
Monteiro, Basilio. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1993. Section
1033, Part 0708 123 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- Ohio: The
Union Institute; 1993. Publication Number: AAT 9403037.

Casta and comunidade: The transformation of corporate agrarian structures
in Goa, India
Rubinoff, Janet Clare Ahner. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1992.
Section 0779, Part 0326 513 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].Canada: University
of Toronto (Canada); 1992. Publication Number: AAT NN73738.

Ecodevelopment and local action: Feminist participatory research in Goa,
India
Shaw, Barbara Ann. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1992. Section
0040, Part 0999 200 pages; [M.A. dissertation].Canada: Carleton University
(Canada); 1992. Publication Number: AAT MM79799.

The revolt of Dom Jeronimo Chingulia of Mombasa, 1590-1637 (an African
episode in the Portuguese century of decline)
Mbuia-Joao, Tome Nhamitambo. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1990.
Section 0043, Part 0331 577 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -
- District of Columbia: The Catholic University of America; 1990.
Publication Number: AAT 9027645.

CATHOLIC EDUCATION IN SRI LANKA DURING ITS FIRST CENTURY AS A BRITISH
COLONY, 1796-1901
GNANAPRAGASAM, JUSTIN BERNARD. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1988.
Section 5036, Part 0520 404 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].England: University
of Southampton (United Kingdom); 1988. Publication Number: AAT D-83760.

A DESCRIPTION OF KONKANI (INDIA)
ALMEIDA, MATTHEW. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1985. Section
0076, Part 0290 350 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- District
of Columbia: Georgetown University; 1985. Publication Number: AAT 8602358.

MARATHI AND KONKANI SPEAKING WOMEN IN HINDUSTANI MUSIC, 1880-1940
QUINN, JENNIFER POST. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1982. Section
0130, Part 0413 213 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- Minnesota:
University of Minnesota; 1982. Publication Number: AAT 8221322.

GOA AND MOZAMBIQUE: THE PARTICIPATION OF GOANS IN PORTUGUESE ENTERPRISE IN
THE RIOS DE CUAMA, 1501-1752
HROMNIK, CYRIL ANDREW. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1977. Section
0659, Part 0331 511 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- New York:
Syracuse University; 1977. Publication Number: AAT 7811657.

GOA'S HISTORY OF EDUCATION - A CASE STUDY OF PORTUGUESE COLONIALISM
COUTINHO, VERISSIMO. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1975. Section
0112, Part 0520 515 pages; [Ph.D. dissertation].United States -- Illinois:
Loyola University of Chicago; 1975. Publication Number: AAT 7514505.

AN ANALYSIS OF FOLK MUSIC OF THE BOMBAY EAST INDIAN COMMUNITY TO DETERMINE
POSSIBLE ASSIMILATION OF IDIOMS DERIVED FROM MAHARASHTRIAN, GOAN, AND
ENGLISH FOLK SONGS
D'MELLO, RALPH PLACIDUS. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1972. Section
0659, Part 0413 206 pages; [Educat.D. dissertation].United States -- New
York: Syracuse University; 1972. Publication Number: AAT 7408337.

INDIA'S USE OF FORCE IN GOA
RUBINOFF, ARTHUR G.. Proquest Dissertations And Theses 1966. Section
0330, Part 0332 132 pages; [A.M. dissertation].United States -- Illinois:
The University of Chicago; 1966. Publication Number: AAT TM13150.

===============================================

http://www.mail-archive.com/goa...@lists.goanet.org/msg15272.html

sandralobo

unread,
Jul 24, 2011, 5:27:44 PM7/24/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Thank you very much Fred. Most of these thesis which are directly related to mine I was already aware of, including Dr. Arthur's Rubinoff which was afterwards published. What was really new to me was the fact that Dr. Janet had focused on ideas of caste during pre-liberation period.

S.

________________________________

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de Frederick FN Noronha * ???????? ???????? *??????? ???????
Enviada: dom 24-07-2011 21:14
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Re: Should writers focus on ills of society and pay for it?

On 24 July 2011 23:52, sandralobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:
> Dear Janet,
>
> Thank you for your input. Personally I was not aware of the extent of your work and will read it at Lisbon National Library.


Sandra, Janet's thesis is listing among the ones that Eddie Fernandes
pointed to (on Goanet) in 2007

PS: Incidentally, Dr Janet Rubinoff will be our guest at the Goa Book
Club on August 11, 2011. Details follow....

* * *

[Goanet] Goa related Dissertations - UK & North America
Eddie Fernandes
Thu, 02 Aug 2007 22:15:44 -0700

------------------------------------------------------------------------
* G * O * A * N * E * T **** C * L * A * S * S * I * F * I * E * D * S *
------------------------------------------------------------------------
GARCA BRANCA
VACATION ACCOMMODATION
LOUTULIM, SOUTH GOA.
For R&R; modern/clean amenities; serene, healthy and wholesome location

Visit http://www.garcabranca.com <http://www.garcabranca.com/> for details/booking/confirmation.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

===============================================

http://www.mail-archive.com/goa...@lists.goanet.org/msg15272.html

Saligao Goa INhttp://fn.goa-india.org <http://fn.goa-india.org/> Skype: fredericknoronha


winmail.dat

Margaret Mascarenhas

unread,
Jul 25, 2011, 2:13:03 AM7/25/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear Sandra,

These are not interrogations, but simple questions. As an academic, I am curious about how other scholars approach their subjects, what their points of reference are. I am familiar with Rochelle's enlightening work in post-colonial literature, diaspora and cultural theory. (are you by any chance in touch with Cristiana Bastos?) I was trying to understand the parameters of your thesis and your approach. In Goa, the creation of native elites and intellectuals during the period you mention was not exclusive to the Goan Catholic community, but included the Hindu elite as well (here too, dominance was largely defined by caste hierarchies, which generally translated into wealth, better education, fluency in the Portuguese language, better opportunities, the fact that landed gentry could spend their time intellectualizing because their living expenses were supported by property income, political advantage, etc.). Please do write me at my personal address, as I would like to know more about what you are doing.

Best,
Margaret

Selma Cardoso

unread,
Jul 25, 2011, 5:59:12 AM7/25/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear all,
I have decided to put these thoughts together in the hope that it will help writers and publishers.
 
After three days of book-selling, the first two days at the Convention to a select crowd of approximately 200 people each day, and the last day at the festival to a crowd of approximately 5000 people, I have come to the hideous conclusion that we are a society that does not read. Not only that, we are a society that probably has contempt for  stimulation caused by anything other than feni. (Ok, these statements are exaggerated because I am reeling from a combination fatigue and assorted disorders). But you can ask Rajendra Talak (the producer of O Maria) and the lovely actress Priyanka with whom I shared stall-space and delicious chit-chat, if you want a second opinion.
 
Overall, Goans remain averse to reading. When they did wander into book territory - some ran away as if they had inadvertenly wandered into a mine-field. Most who came over enquired immediately if I had cookery books and told me I should stock cookery books. Given my disdain for cooking, I was curt enough to tell them that there is more to life than gorging on sorpatel and learning ways to cook it. Anyway, I won't bore you, so here goes:
 
1. The cover and title of a book is imperative. People abroad have no idea of either the books being sold or the authors. So they go entirely by cover. By this I mean, a person has to be able to tell immediately if it is a historical book, a non-fiction etc.
 
2. Cookery books were the major draw. My entire stock cleared out quickly with enquiries and requests. Even cookery related books do well - such as Cozinha da Goa. Learning Konkani/Portuguese books (especially with DVD) also did well.
 
3. The day of the book launch itself was the best day of my sales. All the books launched cleared quickly. So launches and visibility helps.
 
4. The size of the book matters a lot. Goans do not venture near thick books. This is just a guidance for commerce-driver publishers. Hopefully we still have altruistic publishers who will back works that don't fly off the shelf but are necessary anyway. But as a general guideance keep book size to about 300 pages. Do not bulk up books adding unecessay pages. Trying to incorporate two or three books in one is a bad idea.
 
5. (Please don't take this as self-promotion) but Into the Diaspora Wilderness continued to do well with UK audiences. I cleared all my stock and took advance orders. The only reason I am writing this is -not because of any hubris- but to make an important point - author visibility in the community goes a lot way, being a bit of a "character" helps and word-of-mouth advertising is the best ripple effect a writer can hope for. Continuously maintain visibility for your work - by this I don't mean boring people to death on forums about books you've written.  Publishers too have to work relentlessly to get those reviews in and promote their authors in book-specific or even non-related matters at every opportunity and create visibility. Visibility is key - assuming you've written a fairly decent book.
 
6. The stock of Inside/Out also cleared. However, this book did not move easily because it was unknown in the UK. The reason it cleared was I literally went around on foot through the crowds promoting it. I recommended it to every person who came to the stall. I loved this book when I read it and wanted others to read it. So getting someone who believes in your product and is enthusiastic about your product to promote it, is a good idea. Publishers also have to get into the habit of offering commissions and really make it a profitable venture for those who go out on a limb. Selling books is a very tiring affairs. Books are heavy to cart, hard to sell and although some of us will do it for altruistic purposes with no returns, depending on husbands to pitch in with carrying, transporting, etc, most will not. The industry has to become more focussed.
 
7. I am going to repeat this point again because I found it to be so crucial - book-cover is KEY. You must have a fantastic book-cover and a good TITLE.
 
That's all.
Hope this helps.
Take care,
Selma
 
 
 
 
 
 

Nazareth, Peter

unread,
Jul 25, 2011, 9:13:39 AM7/25/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Dear Selma,

       At the Goan convention in Toronto in 1988, I was in charge of the table of books for a few hours.  A Goan teenager came to the table, looked to the right, looked to the left, sidled up to me, picked up a copy of JSAL (the Goan issue I had edited), quickly paid me for it, and left quickly with the issue under arm.

        Peter

       


From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Selma Cardoso [lescar...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2011 4:59 AM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [GOABOOKCLUB] My humiliating experiences as a book-seller

A.Anthony (TONY) FERNANDES

unread,
Jul 25, 2011, 10:06:48 AM7/25/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
 

Spot on and I'll second this from personal experience of having observed some of the interactions the book stall @ the Festival.

 

Naturally it lends itself to a tendency towards generalisation , but without the intention of painting us all same tar brush , because of course there are those of us who do make the time to read and sometimes even write .. albeit our numbers could use some reinforcing.

 

(BTW: Kudos to Selma and others who volunteer their time, talents and services for the most part to make these and other cultural events come together )

 

·     Also regrettable but true that attendance @ Carmen Miranda's (two presentations on 'Mining in Goa: Myths and Inconvenient Truths'  were not as well attended as they could have been given the #s at the festival).

 Sampler http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne84v68Bqlk ( updated presentation soon to be uploaded by Carmen )

 

·     Ditto for Raj Talak's 'O Maria ' complimentary movie screening

Sampler  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hoXQhm_IBI

 

 

I guess the 80/20 Pareto principle applies here

 

http://www.it-cortex.com/Pareto_law.htm

 

20 % of Goenkars, friends of Goa and 'Goa-na' aficionados/as, support 80 % of home-grown cultural capital output.

 

More shame on us ... more power to the undeterred and the seemingly indefatigable such as Selma, our other writers, artists and film makers etc who make things happen despite it all. ...

 

Man does not live by 'feni' and 'sorpotel' alone but needs a little accompanying 'sanna' for the soul..

 

To quote from Selma's brief yet memorable introduction to the the Goan Authors' Book Launch segment @ the Global Convention on Sat 23rd July 2011, (speaking in the context of our sometimes headlong rush to join the rat race for material gain and fast buck prosperity from the sidelines...)

 

 

'Abstraction and thought are never a fruitless endeavour'

 

 

(Hope I got this right Selma /Apologies if I did not but I'm sure you will set the record straight otherwise)

 

 

Best

 

 

A.Anthony (Tony ) FERNANDES

 
Saligao/Paetona( Salvador Do Mundo) / LONDON
--
A.Anthony (Tony) FERNANDES




--
A.Anthony (Tony) FERNANDES




--
A.Anthony (Tony) FERNANDES

Nazareth, Peter

unread,
Jul 25, 2011, 11:16:13 AM7/25/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Anne,

I am glad you responded to what I said.

In fact I have been writing this way for quite a while.  Of course the story varies like an oral work that depends on the time, the place, and the audience: it has to be fresh each time.  What I said here is in my "Rosie's Theme" and "Telling Grandpa's Story" except in a different context, and the story is updated. 

I explained in "Telling Grandpa's Story", published in Confluence, Thornton Heath, that I tried telling my Grandfather's story in my first novel, "In a Brown Mantle", but my friend Tova Raz whose husband was a financial advisor in the Ministry of Finance where I worked (from Jerusalem) read the manuscript and told me it was too much and did not work.  [I was turned down by my alma mater, Makerere University so I joint the Uganda government and was posted to the Ministry of Finance.  It was the best place for me to be since I had decided from my experience at Leeds University that I had been miseducated and needed to re-educate myself.]  So I deleted it.  I realized after I wrote "The General is Up" that it did not work because it was told by a male narrator.  The story was not about just a list of persons in my grandfather's family but about survival and adaptation and change.  That is, a story of how Goans survived far from Goa and yet changed and took in and contributed to other cultures.  So it had to be a woman telling the story because Goans have survived thanks to Goan women, who make the key decisions about the survival of the family.  George Kapa in "The General is Up" quarrels with his friend David D'Costa who has now decided to leave Damibia (like Uganda), accusing him of being under the control of his wife like all Goan men.  I don't think George (or Ronald D'Mello or I at the time of writing the novel) understood why this was so.  It is now presented in Rosie's voice.  I used the name "Rosie" because it is optimistic and "theme" because it is not a story because it goes from A to B to C but it is a theme like music and in fact it swells into a song of survival, which I based (with the author's permission) on the poem "We Are the World Wanderers" by Manohar Sardessai, to whom I gave credit  in the Jerry Pinto anthology (sadly, he died a few months before the anthology came out).

Like Ishmael Reed in "The Last Days of Louisiana Red", I think of my writing as a gumbo, a mix of different dishes, not only in content but also form: I mix up literary criticism, autobiography, fiction, music.  People frequently say to me, "Why don't you write your memoirs?"  I reply that I am always doing this: but if I were to write "Memoirs", there would be only one meaning to the story/stories and I would not be able to use it/them again; this way I am endlessly using my story to find meanings in other writings.  The most eminent scholar in the English Department at the University of Iowa, Sherman Paul, chaired the committee that recommended my promotion to full professor (which happened in 1985), calling my essay "Heading Them Off At the Pass: The Fiction of Ishmael Reed" my showpiece.  There are autobiographical elements in this novel, and references to the Asian Expulsion from Uganda.  I expanded the spiral form in this essay to write a long essay, "Elvis as Anthology", of which Leslie Waters said in an essay in a tribute to Walter Benjamin in Boundary, "this is a great essay": and Goans are named in this essay (Nobby D'Souza, Henry Rodrigues, Norman Remedios, Lavoisier Cardozo, and others).

The beginning of this way of writing can be traced to my time doing postgraduate experience at Leeds University, where the chair of the English Department, famous for beginning an empire on Commonwealth Literature, told me I was not good enough.  In my Introduction to my first book of criticism, "Literature and Society in Modern Africa", I stated that I discovered at Leeds that I did not belong to the same world and worldview as the English literary critics.

The University of Iowa judges scholars more by production and creativeness than qualifications.  Leeds did not think I was good enough so I don't have a Ph D or Master's from the University of Leeds but I am a full professor at the University of Iowa. I keep producing my gumbo.

Best.

Peter


From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Anne Ketteringham [anne.ket...@gmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 23, 2011 3:23 AM

B MENEZES

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Jul 25, 2011, 10:41:59 AM7/25/11
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Dear Selma,
That is an excellent summary of the state of the art of reading among Goans. As a matter of interest, a couple of years ago when I thought my efforts were going well as a wannabe writer, I asked some of my Goan friends (all above 60) whether they read novels. One answered spoke for all. "What?" was the shocked response. "After I receive my medications each month, I read through the two pages of  instructions and caveats, and that's my reading for the month!" So there you have it. It forced me to rethink my audience and broaden the scope of my forthcoming novel  "Just Matata (trouble): Sin, Saints and Settlers" set in Goa and Kenya.
We as a community have a a rule not cultivated a practice, nor love for reading, as children. Were there many (or any) children books or 'young adults' books for sale in your inventory?
Finally, congratulations on the sale of your 'Diaspora'. As I said before, it is well written, interesting and informative.
Warm regards

Braz Menezes

 Tel: 416 363 9757
  Mailing address:  2512/55 Harbour Square, Toronto, ON, M5J2L1, Canada



Date: Mon, 25 Jul 2011 10:59:12 +0100
From: lescar...@yahoo.com

Subject: [GOABOOKCLUB] My humiliating experiences as a book-seller

A.Anthony (TONY) FERNANDES

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Jul 25, 2011, 10:12:41 AM7/25/11
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PICT0457.JPG

A.Anthony (TONY) FERNANDES

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Jul 25, 2011, 10:11:06 AM7/25/11
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PICT0486.JPG

Anne Ketteringham

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Jul 25, 2011, 12:21:57 PM7/25/11
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Carry on Gumboing Peter, it is fascinating indeed to read and understand how writers evolve their writing habits and of course, to hear of their works that could help others expand their talents as well.

Best

Anne

Anne Ketteringham

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Jul 25, 2011, 12:46:04 PM7/25/11
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Selma

Your points are indeed focused and to the point giving good solid advice to those who wish to publish their work/s of passion.  Thank you so much for this valued advice.

Anne

Selma Cardoso

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Jul 25, 2011, 12:50:13 PM7/25/11
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Dear Tony,
Thanks Tony for your kind words. Tony, here always buys books and thank you for that too.
 
Braz's idea for writers to widen their audiences beyond Goa is an excellent idea. I don't know if Goa writing can become sustainable commercially if it caters solely to a Goan market.
 
Tony, thanks for a picture of the poster in the Convention hall. That wonderful picture is the beautiful photography of artist and photographer Edgar Silveira.
 
I have forwarded below a brief and edited version of my speech at the Convention.
 

Preserving culture through the Arts.

A few weeks ago, I was researching the life of the famed modernist artist, Francis Newton Souza and I came across a letter he had written to Victor Musgrave, who was his dealer at the time, refusing to exhibit in Venice because the Indian government wanted him to bear his own expenses to the exhibition. He writes, “The Government of India is so idiotically lethargic in cultural matters.” And as I was reading this at Grosvenor gallery, the curator came in to tell me that M F Hussain had died, in London, in exile, hounded out of India – the land he loved. How badly we treat our artists, our writers, our intelligentsia; the very soul of our society.

In Goa, if you are an artist you have less chance of making a living than a house-painter. If you are a randpin or caterer, you can earn a successful living because there are endless parties, weddings and funerals to cater for, but not if you are a writer.  Then the very purpose of your existence is questionable. One wonders, how amidst this abyss of indifference, an intelligentsia has managed to survive; it survives because the human spirit is resilient and seeks knowledge because knowledge is worth seeking for itself; not because it is profitable in the material sense; it seeks abstract thought because abstraction in thought and dialogue is never a fruitless endeavour.

Our writers, our artists, our musicians are the very custodians of our Culture. What is culture? Some people say it doesn’t exist in this fast evolving, homogenised world that we live in. But we know it; we recognise it; It is that most intimate, most exquisite moment in your life when you hear the verse of a long-forgotten mando, see the spirit of your land captured on canvas by an F N Souza; it is that delicious discovery when you read something in a Victor Rangel-Ribeiro novel and come face to face with a profound truth that is specific not to everyone but to our own community. And in that moment of discovery, through understanding the aspirations, values and morality of your community, you understand something deep, intense and honest about yourself. In that moment your life is transformed. I pity the man or woman who distances themselves from their Culture, from their Community. I believe they suffer a terrible, terrible leanness of spirit, an emaciation of the heart. What a terrible burden of lonliness to bear.

To preserve our Culture through the arts, Goans need platforms, which is why I am delighted that the Goan Association (UK) and the NRI Office have so strongly supported the need to give our Goan writers this platform at the Global Goans Convention. There are detractors who will ask what is the purpose of a Global Goans Convention? The purpose is dialogue. Even as we commemorate the past, we must dialogue with the future. Our writers and artistes create that dialogue for us. We can never quantify the value of dialogue, but we must constantly engage in it, through our writing, through our art, through meeting, through discussion. It is integral to the development and evolution of every society. Thank you



From: A.Anthony (TONY) FERNANDES <rockr...@gmail.com>
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Mon, 25 July, 2011 15:12:41

Janet Rubinoff

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Jul 25, 2011, 1:28:32 PM7/25/11
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Hi,
I tried to get at early Portuguese understandings of caste in India
through some of the very early writers like Barbosa (of course who was
writing on Kerela, not Goa). They were some of the first "modern"
Europeans who tried to explain social structure in India (i.e. caste),
long before the British were there. And they, in part, tended to
conceive caste (varna) like the estates of late medieval Europe. They
definitely had an idea of aspects of purity and pollution within the
ideology of the caste system -- hence the term casta which they used to
describe these groups, coming from the Latin with also connotations of
purity. (closest English word: chaste, chastity) Like the ancient
Greeks (Megasthenes use of Greek term meros), the Portuguese gave the
institution their own name in Portuguese, which later Europeans assumed
was an indigenous term!
Best, Janet R.

On 11-07-24 5:27 PM, sandralobo wrote:
> Thank you very much Fred. Most of these thesis which are directly related to mine I was already aware of, including Dr. Arthur's Rubinoff which was afterwards published. What was really new to me was the fact that Dr. Janet had focused on ideas of caste during pre-liberation period.
>
> S.
>
> ________________________________
>
> De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de Frederick FN Noronha * ???????? ???????? *??????? ???????
> Enviada: dom 24-07-2011 21:14
> Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
> Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Re: Should writers focus on ills of society and pay for it?
>
>
>
> On 24 July 2011 23:52, sandralobo<sandr...@netcabo.pt> wrote:
>> Dear Janet,
>>
>> Thank you for your input. Personally I was not aware of the extent of your work and will read it at Lisbon National Library.
>
> Sandra, Janet's thesis is listing among the ones that Eddie Fernandes
> pointed to (on Goanet) in 2007
>
> PS: Incidentally, Dr Janet Rubinoff will be our guest at the Goa Book
> Club on August 11, 2011. Details follow....
>
> * * *
>

> [Goanet] Goa related Dissertations - UK& North America

George Menezes

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Jul 26, 2011, 3:04:34 AM7/26/11
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Dear Selma
 
My heart goes out to you and I share your humiliation as a "book seller" despite your extra-ordinary success with the Convention.
 
In addition to my humiliaton of being twice in a police lock up for breaking down the walls of cemetries that separated burial places of dalits from upper castes, I was once asked by my Publisher, very sweetly, wheter I could arrange for somebody to sell my book at traffic intersections since they were short of Staff !!
 
Altough you have received a lot of supportive mail I have picked this one fom Peter Nazareth because I met Peter in Toronto at the International Convention of Goa in 1988 . I am always indebted to him for including me in his Antology now republished in Goa.
 
My book  "One Sip at a Time" was displayed at Toronto's  seafront venue and I autographed a huge number of books that were sold.
 
I agree with you that the cover must attract immediate attention. I had the added advantage of having the great Mario illustrate the book free  of cost.
 
I heard quite often that people bought my book more for Mario's illustrations than  for my prose.
 
My next book will offer free a minature botte of feni and a morsel of sorpotel in tetra-pack
 
I love you Selma and Peter for  ridiculously different reasons
 
George Menezes
 
 
 
 Original Message -----

DAN DRISCOLL

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Jul 26, 2011, 1:27:31 AM7/26/11
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Interesting and helpful commentary; Thanks.

Silviano Barbosa

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Jul 28, 2011, 9:56:19 PM7/28/11
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Hi Rico,

First of all let me apologize for wrongly assuming that this was an authors/writers forum as I had seen umpteen posts from various authors since I joined it about 2 weeks ago.
My apologies go out to all GoaBookClub readers for my mistake.

I would like to thank my fellow Canadian Janet Rubinoff for pointing out about the existence of her Ph.D. thesis (" Casta and Comunidade").
It is coincidental that it took two Canadian writers to point out that there was indeed a Caste and Comunidade (Gaunkaria) nexus in Goa, which I have never read about anywhere else in Goan literature, history or fiction, whether it is in Konkani, Portuguese, Konkani or Marathi, to my knowledge.

I only hope that the new writers bring this out openly and don't treat it like hot potato.
If it is wrong, criticize it and ask for apology and restitution for thousands of years of injustice.
We ask Pope to apologize, we ask colonials to apologize. But for gaunkaria to exclude Shudras is perfectly ok, no apologies needed. What kind of reasoning is this?
I am not a lawyer but would it be fair to say Gaunkaria should be declared ultra vires the Constitution of India?
Anyway I just brought it up, because if we don't , who will?

Again, thanks for letting me use this forum for the above subject.
I assure you I won't make you uncomfortable any more.
Thanks Augusto and Sandra.

Cheers!

Silviano Barbosa

> Date: Sun, 24 Jul 2011 08:08:09 -0400
> From: jan...@yorku.ca
> To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Re: Should writers focus on ills of society and pay for it?

Nazareth, Peter

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Jul 29, 2011, 10:47:23 AM7/29/11
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Dear Silviano,

I have stayed out of this discussion because I have not read your novel in its entirety since it was published.  I read it in manuscript form several years ago and you generously acknowledged my assistance in the (beautifully published) novel.  I started reading the novel (when I was here in Ashburn, Virginia, as I am now, visiting with my grandsons).  I read the beginning six times but each time it would not sink in.  I was troubled by two things happening at the time.  One was a problem with a graduate student (an African-American, who I thought was brilliant but the university thought there otherwise: they wanted me to return for a meeting to discuss dismissing him from the university, a meeting attended by campus police when it took place, without my bring there) and my godmother in Toronto who was ill and was dying (she died and I came to Toronto for the funeral).  I put the novel aside and meant to get back to it to see whether it was me or whether there was a problem with the novel.  Since Frederick has clarified that this is a chat line for readers, not writers, I want to make clear that one's state of mind as a reader affects the text one is reading.  I still have not got back to it because I sometimes feel I was not born to only read books--the work I do in Iowa includes reading several books a month and I want a life...

But one question to be raised is this: you are discussing only the content of your novel, but there is the question of how the novel is written.  This should be discussed.  What if the subject is profound but the execution is not?

You said in your earlier message: "Even the natives of Australia, Canada and other countries have their land-rights recognized, except in Goa and in India." This may be partially true, but not entirely.  A few years ago, I was on the Ph. D. Committee of Jodi Byrd, a Chicasaw (Indian) who wrote about what she called "Cacophony".  Her thesis was that everywhere in the world where the colonized had revolted against the English colonizers, it was not the indigenous people who revolted but the settlers.  That is to say the settlers, who came from England rebelled against the mother country but they continued to dominate the real original people of the land.  She argues that postcolonial studies does not take this into account but only deals with the settlers.

Much of what you are writing about in Goa I did not know.  It was not the world I grew up in.  My world from the sixties onwards was full of political forces which I as a civil servant could not ignore but sought to understand, write about with understanding, and take action.  The oppressed people were not lower caste Goans or original Goan inhabitants of the land. Who killed a lot of Africans in the country?  Not upper caste Goans. Who put Idi Amin into power? The answers are in my writing--but a Goan who wrote several years ago to Goa Today from London to disagree with the fine interview with me by Frederick chose to write about "The General is Up" without mentioning the General!!!  Have Goans been blinded by the forces we are obsequious to because we owed them our living, the forces that scapegoated and even abandoned us when colonization was coming to an end.

In Malaysia, where my mother was born, the oppressed people under British rule were Malays.  Malays (at least the elites) came into power at "Merdeka" ("Uhuru" in East Africa).  They called themselves "Bumi Putra", which is taken to mean "sons of the soil".  Yet my cousin Alberto Gomes did research for his Ph. D. into the aboriginal people of the land, one community of which, the "Orang Asli", he took me to see in 1986, who were hostile to the Malays, whom they saw as their oppressors, even though they used the Malay language.

Oppression is a complex thing, as is ending oppressession, as is writing a novel about ending oppression, as is reading about oppression and taking action to end oppression. One of the lessons of Idi Amin is that the "oppressed" are not necessarily kind-hearted people who will treat other people wonderfully when they come into power.

Several novelists have faced problems over getting their work published or being praised for the work.  They persist.

Best.

Peter


From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Silviano Barbosa [goa...@hotmail.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 8:56 PM
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Re: Should writers focus on ills of society and pay for it?

Janet Rubinoff

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Jul 30, 2011, 11:35:30 AM7/30/11
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Hi Silviano et al.
    Silviano didn't know you were a fellow Canadian -- are you in Toronto area?  Ben Antoa too, of course, is another fellow Canadian. And t to add more to the caste issue, I forgot initially that I had done an article back in the mid-1990s for a Goa conference sponsored by the University of Toronto.  Their publication of papers came out in 1998 or thereabouts, and in that book (published by the Centre for South Asian Studies at U. of T.) was my article that summarized some of my conclusions on caste in the Catholic community. Here is the citation if it will be helpful to anyone working on caste in Goa:

 
J. Rubinoff, “The ‘Casteing’ of Catholicism,” in Goa: Continuity and Change, George Coelho & N.K. Wagle (eds.), Toronto: Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Toronto, pp. 165-81.


   Regards,
 Janet

Nazareth, Peter

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Jul 30, 2011, 11:44:14 AM7/30/11
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Folks,

I mentioned form and structure in my previous message.

Here is a summary of the form and structure of some of my creative writing:

"Brave New Cosmos", one-act play performed at Makerere University in 1963--under the influence of Cheknov, I believed that what happened on the stage had to give the appearance of being as incomplete as in real life, with the characters not completing sentences, and it was up to the audience to look at the whole stage and figure out what was really going on beyond the comprehension of the characters.  The three characters had well-known African names so you could identify the tribe and country. Produced by the BBC in 1963 without sound effects added by the producer to make up for the audience not being able to see the whole stage.

"The Hospital", a radio-play, produced by the BBC in 1964, which depended on sound and sound-effects.  The  characters had African names or were nameless.  The play was written under the influence of Kafka "Metamorphosis" and showed the dehumanization and destruction of the individual in a postcolonial society.

"X", a radio-play performed by the BBC in 1965.  I was under the influence of Brecht at the time and wanted to expose the mechanics of radio to show how the mind was colonized under colonialism, expose and deconstruct the methods of colonizing the mind and thus show the audience how to decolonize their minds.  There were African names in the play or nameless "characters".

"In a Brown Mantle", novel, 1972.  Narrated by a Goan politician in self-imposed exile in London.  Reading about the attempted assassination of his colleague in Damibia (a Uganda-like country), he feels the need to confess and he does confess by writing things down.  It is like a Catholic confession where he tries to slide by his really big sin, but conscience figures turn up in his mind to guide him and draw attention to what he is dodging.  The strongest influence on me at the time of writing was VS Naipaul's "The Mimic Men", about which I wrote an essay (published, revised and published again in my first book of criticism, 1972).  Many of the characters were Goan with Goan (that is, Catholic Goans because there were very few Goan Hindus in East Africa) names. Most of the African names were made up to sound like African names.  They were made-up so readers could not make any tribal accusations, e.g. "He did that because he was Acholi."  I kept one Luganda name in, "Kyeyune", because it sounded like "key", which has a meaning.

"The General is Up", novel, 1984, revised edition 1991.  It bears comparison to "X" in exposing methods of mind-control and in deconstruction.  It seems to be omniscient narration, in contrast to the first novel, until you get to the Epilogue and realize you have been fooled: it was written by a person who seems to be a major character in the novel.  And it seems to have been edited and published by an American of Lebanese origin, who edited it to make it palatable to Americans.  I made up the African names for the same reason as in the first novel.  The Goan Institute (based on the Entebbe Goan Institute) plays an even more important role than in the first one.  I used the name "Damibia" for the country again because of the religious connotations ("Damnation!":  God figures in both novels, more indirectly in this one--the artist plays God by creating the work).

"Rosie's Theme", published several times, written after the second novel above.  The two novels are written by males and in both males are central while women are on the periphery in terms of the structure of the novels but not in terms of importance to the meaning of the novel.  Many readers and scholars get confused about this distinction and accuse the novels of being male-centered.  "Rosie's Theme" has a woman narrator, telling her own story.  It was meant to be a third novel but it got complete in a short piece.  The woman is a Goan in Iowa who came from a Uganda-like country in Africa (like the second novel) with husband and children and lives in Iowa; she met her maternal grandfather in Kuala Lumpur and also visited Goa.  She pooh-poohs her husband's political ideas and says that all people are tribal. She is telling her story to someone so it is not stream-of-consciousnes, unlike the first novel, which means she says what she wants to say.  Of course, she does not realize that there are amusing contradictions in the way she generalizes.  For example, she talks about visiting an Israeli friend who married an Englishwoman and lives in London who complained that his wife's father and his brother do not speak to each other although they live on the same street.  She agrees with the Israeli that Goans, like middle-Easterners, are not like this, forgetting that she tells us that her grandfather and his brother lived in the same barracks like structure in Kuala Lumpur, two apartments away, and had not talked to each other for years.  She celebrates Goan survival at the end, having recounted what is a multicultural experience. 

I have not said anything about my short stories or how I use fictional techniques in my literary and music criticism.

Peter

 


From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of Nazareth, Peter [peter-n...@uiowa.edu]
Sent: Friday, July 29, 2011 9:47 AM

Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا‎

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Jul 30, 2011, 12:07:52 PM7/30/11
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Kafka, Chekov, Brecht, Naipaul... Peter that was indeed nice to read.

Which makes me wonder: who are the main influences in the works of
Goan authors? Whether in Konkani, English or Marathi? Would you hazard
a guess? FN

B MENEZES

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Jul 30, 2011, 4:56:54 PM7/30/11
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Hi Janet, please add my name too to your electronic Rolodex. Working on finishing my debut novel: 'Just Matata' set in Goa and Kenya. It has a short bit on the caste issue. How can I get a copy of your piece?
If you can spare the time, I would love to meet over a coffee soon.
cheers
Braz Menezes


 Tel: 416 363 9757
  Mailing address:  2512/55 Harbour Square, Toronto, ON, M5J2L1, Canada



Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:35:30 -0400
From: jan...@yorku.ca
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff

joe...@gmail.com

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Jul 30, 2011, 8:35:39 PM7/30/11
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Hi Fred,
Reginald Fernandes, the Konkani novelist from Siolim, was influenced by the work of a French writer.
Cheers.

2011/7/30 Frederick FN Noronha * फ्रेडरिक नोरोन्या *فريدريك نورونيا <frederic...@gmail.com>

mas...@udsm.ac.tz

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Jul 30, 2011, 10:09:02 PM7/30/11
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Fred/Peter

I too enjoyed reading your piece and the others. Kafka, Chekov Naipal etc
may have been a catalyst. ....... but I think far more important was the
liberation and yet adherence to "Goan Values"

For instance one could not claim to be a Catholic and consciously begin to
discriminate .... In 1956, in Makerere, in a small hostel of 10 rooms
where I stayed, I was put off by the attitude of few learned Buganda
against the Acholis that made me conscious that discrimination was deeper
than the colour of the skin. What brought several of us together was
music, sports, shared interest and there was a lot of this (I mean sports,
music, scholarship) among the Goans and this was reinforced by our
background. We made friends with people of like interest. Frankly it made
no difference whether it was an African, another Asians or a European.

"Liberation" actually meant volunteering your time to seeing that the
student newspaper was out, agreeing to boycott "cereals" and wine from
South Africa ... Liberation meant developing "capabilities" and putting
two and two .... Capabilities not only meant writing "memos in good
English" in the Ministry of Finance but also telling your boss from
England that he can keep his job because deep down in you, you don't want
to be suppressed. But Makerere made you realize that beyond the
University there was the reality of an adult world in which we could
contribute .... you moved where you were allowed to contribute most.

Adolfo


_________________

University Computing Centre - 'Professionalism, Customer Care and Technological foresight'

Jason Keith Fernandes

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Jul 31, 2011, 4:24:00 AM7/31/11
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Dear Janet,

Is there a way you could share a pdf copy of this essay with us?

thank you!

Jason

Ângela Xavier

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Jul 31, 2011, 6:35:21 AM7/31/11
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I would love to have it, too. For those who don't know about it, the last chapter of my book, A Invenção de Goa (Lisbon, 2008), unfortunately only in Portuguese, is about caste issues, too, in Goan territories in the end of 17th century. I am also finishing a new book, this one in English, with Ines Zupanov (Catholic Orientalism) which will have a chapter with new material on it.

Cheers,
Ângela
________________________________________
De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] Em Nome De Jason Keith Fernandes [jason.k....@gmail.com]
Enviado: domingo, 31 de Julho de 2011 9:24
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff

Dear Janet,

Is there a way you could share a pdf copy of this essay with us?

thank you!

Jason

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 9:56 PM, B MENEZES <bmen...@sympatico.ca<mailto:bmen...@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
Hi Janet, please add my name too to your electronic Rolodex. Working on finishing my debut novel: 'Just Matata' set in Goa and Kenya. It has a short bit on the caste issue. How can I get a copy of your piece?
If you can spare the time, I would love to meet over a coffee soon.
cheers
Braz Menezes

Tel: 416 363 9757
Mailing address: 2512/55 Harbour Square, Toronto, ON, M5J2L1, Canada


________________________________
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:35:30 -0400

Regards,
Janet

Cheers!

Silviano Barbosa

> From: jan...@yorku.ca<mailto:jan...@yorku.ca>
> To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>

> > On Jul 23, 8:26 pm, Silviano Barbosa <goa...@hotmail.com><mailto:goa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > ******************************
> > >
> > > Should writers focus on ills of society and pay for it?
> > >
> > > I am glad someone
> > > thought about this writers group and implemented this forum for the
> > > benefit of Goan writers. It was long needed, so someone could vent
> > > out their feelings, frustrations, anxieties on this forum. THANK YOU!
> >


--
-----------------------------------------------------
Read my thoughts at www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com<http://www.dervishnotes.blogspot.com>

sandralobo

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 7:23:51 AM7/31/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Janet,

As you have given me this clue before, I have tried, as I've informed you, to order the book directly, but still had no answer. Is the University on holidays in this time of the year?

regards,

Sandra

________________________________

De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de Janet Rubinoff
Enviada: sáb 30-07-2011 16:35
Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff

Regards,
Janet

winmail.dat

Nazareth, Peter

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 10:39:10 AM7/31/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Frederick and Adolfo,
Of course, I was only discussing influences I was conscious of before beginning writing. There are also triggers to the writing--I began writing "In a Brown Mantle" the morning after the assassination attempt on President Obote. The novel swallowed up a short piece I had written, "The Headmaster", published by Ngugi in a literary issue of The East Africa Journal edited by Ngugi wa Thiong'o (I don't have a copy of this issue).
When I was saying goodbye to the Peruvian novelist, Jose Antonio Bravo, in the International Writing Program years ago, he told me in his halting English that the things I had been telling him about Amin, he was having nightmares and he wanted to write about it but, he said, it was my novel and I should write it. And if I did not know how to write it, buy a copy of Gabriel Garcia Marquez, "One Hundred Years of Solitude", and I would know how to write it. I did buy the novel, and I discussed it with the Chilean writer Luis Dominguez when we went to play tennis each morning, but the result was I felt writing about Garcia Marquez's novel, which became a chapter in my second book of criticism, "The Third World Writer: His Social Responsibility." The following year, Cyprian Ekwensi, the Nigerian novelist, suddenly said to me, "My god! You have the novel in your head! Write it!' "That's exactly what Jose Antonio Bravo said to me last year!' I said. "He wrote in a strange way. He charted his novel like an architect, and when it was ready, he wrote it." "Good," said Ekwensi. "Let me show you how I do it." He took me to his room--and he did it exactly like Bravo. So I went to the Iowa Book and Supply, bought a large art sheet, began charting the novel--and it took off and I wrote the whole of "The General is Up" in a kind of trance. It swallowed up three other short things I had written.
The novel has an epigraph from Garcia Marquez. But you will also see one from Ishmael Reed. My writing style was much more influenced by Reed than by Marquez. I did not know either writer when I was in Uganda. The title was from the Nigerian poet Christopher Okigbo--and recently I read a complex analysis of the poem from which I took the title written by Mark Nwosu from which I discovered that the phrase from the poem had a more complex interpretation than I had been aware of at the time--Okigbo was a poet who fought with words and also with guns during the Nigerian/Biafran war (which is how he died). And that is a meanin'in the novel. The fighting is with guns and also with words. I have said many times that the pen is mightier than the gun--in the long run. In the short run the writer has to stay alive.
I am unaware of any influence on my "Rosie's Theme". Possibly Okot p'Bitek's long "Song of Lawino", which was apparently influenced by Longfellow's "Song of Hiawatha". It ended with a song constructed out of a section of Manohar Sardessai's poem "We Are the World Wanderers", but this was not an influence on the writing. Incidentally, I met a former student of Sardessai's here in Ashburn, Virginia to whom I gave, S a copy of Jerry Pinto's "Reflected in Water." She told me something I did not know: that Sardessai was a songwriter and singer.
I have written about many writers: Francis Ebejer (Malta), Andrew Salkey (Jamaica), Sam Selvon (Trinidad), RK Narayan (India), Ngugi (Kenya), Wole Soyinka (Nigeria), Ayi Kwei Armah (Ghana), Edwin Thumboo (Singapore), Sasenarine Persaud (Guyana/Canada/the US/India)...the list is very long. I have also interviewed many writers. Who knows how many of them have influenced me?
But you are right, Adolfo. Writing does not grow only from writing: it also grows from life. And you will remember that although I took the title of "Brave New Cosmos" (which you produced at Makerere) from Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World", I took the form of three male students talking from my previous play "There are Many More Worlds..." (which you produced) which I took from "They Have Their Entrances" (which you produced) which I took from Reynold Noronha's play "Two Gentlemen of Makerere" (which you produced). Incidentally, Reynold Noronha phoned me two months ago from New Zealand--I had last met him in the early sixties!--to ask me whether I had a copy of "Two Gentlemen From Makerere", and when I said I did not, he said he was going to contact ask whether you had a copy. I don't know whether he has done so.
Peter

________________________________________
From: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of mas...@udsm.ac.tz [mas...@udsm.ac.tz]
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 9:09 PM


To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] Re: Should writers focus on ills of society and pay for it?

Fred/Peter

Silviano Barbosa

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 12:49:34 PM7/31/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear Peter,

Thanks for your post on the above subject.
Sorry I couldn't get back to you earlier.
What you have written is quite correct.
About reading my novel, don't worry too much about it, it happens to most of us. I have quite a few unread books myself, that I always postpone since I cannot read a book in pieces. I need complete concentration and I always read in sequence since I miss the connection easily.

As for my novel, "The Sixth Night" the first few chapters consist of mostly about the description of life in Goa in the fifties and the story actually takes off just before the 1961 invasion.
Anyway thank you Peter for your very creative critique which I used profusely in my novel, although I could not change my novel a lot as the manuscript was started about 15 years ago and I did not want to change it drastically even after I took the novel writing course.

I am guilty of not listening to one of your critiques wherein you said something like "Your characters seem to be doing one thing at one time and the next thing you know they change their mind and do something else". You may be right in this depending on people's background and how they are brought up in life, especially in the West; where, for every action they have a reaction and they stick to that decision, come what may. It is just that in my novel, I took the response  that the people from the background depicted in my novel would would react and behave if it happened to them in real life.

In other words the mother would change her mind later just so the consequence of her decision wouldn't have an astounding effect on the life of her daughter, in the case of my character, Linda, who would probably end her life if her mother did not support her fully by changing her mind in the stressful time in her life.

I will write in my next post what happens when you try to write a novel that people believe is a real story. In fact after I finished telling the story of my novel to a Bombay University educated friend from Velim, on the subway, she asked me this question, "Where in Toronto does this woman live?" I was astounded by this question. I said this was just a fiction. 
I know at least one young lady who read my novel in record time, in one day, in U.K. and she is the subject of my next post. More of that in my next submission. Stay tuned.

Dear Janet,

Thanks for your query about me.
Yes, I am a Canadian, thank you and I have lived in Toronto for the past 36 years.
Architect Braz Menezes is a good friend of mine and is a great cook. I don't mind meeting you at his place if he can arrange it. Braz is one of the fabulous people I like to be around with. He had given a party in my honour after my book was released, at his beautiful place. Good luck to you Braz on your new venture. You are certainly a great writer.

Dear Jason Keith Fernandes,
Thank you Jason and keep doing great things for Goa.
You have my full-fledged support

Dear Melvyn,

Thank you for your support and for your review, which  by the way I have not read. Would you be kind enough to post it here on this forum? Thanks.

I will post more reviews about the novel next.

We have great Goans and Goan friends throughout the world. Thank you all for doing great things for Goa.

Among these are:

1) Eddie Fernandes, for whom I have the greatest respect.
Eddie and his graceful wife invited me for a dinner in Panjim after my book was released in Goa. And Eddie did take the trouble of taking my book to U.K. Eddie featured me quite a few times on his GoanVoiceUK website, which by the way is my favourite Goan website depicting who is who of Goa and I always look forward to opening this website every day along with goanet and gulf-goans newsletter.

2) Frederick Noronha and all the volunteers on goanet for forever supporting Goan literaure and culture.

3) Gaspar Almeida and Ulysses Menezes of Gulf-Goans and other web based free offerings, Konkani songs, videos, etc. icluding the Konkani based Radio link

4) Benedict Lobo of Radio Goa website.

5) and Goacom website among others.


Now did I forget anyone else?
Anyway thank you all the others on this forum for supporting Goan culture and literature.
Thank you Ben Antao and others who liked the song I wrote "Sweet Fantasy" from my sold-out Konkani Cd album "Classic Goa"
In fact this album would not sell in the beginning, since most Konkani Goan buyers were put off by this English song "Sweet fantasy" which was at the beginning of the album.
But eventually it took off and  got sold-out.
Now who can satisfy everybody?
Some like it in Konkani, some like it in English, but others don't seem to like it in Konklish.
Well, some like it hot, some like it cold.
And people like us like "AMBOTT-TIK"
LIVE AND LET LIVE! PEACE!

Silviano



To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [GOABOOKCLUB] Re: Should writers focus on ills of society and pay for it?
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 15:44:14 +0000

Silviano Barbosa

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 1:18:39 PM7/31/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Book Review

 

“The Sixth Night”

 A novel by Silviano C. Barbosa

 

Review by Lino Leitao,

Author of the novel “The Gift of the Holy Cross”

 

 

THE SIXTH NIGHT

            by

Silviano C. Barbosa

Goa Raj Books

Toronto, Canada.

pp 314, Hard Cover,   December 2004


 

            What’s the Sixth Night, or Sottvi Raat?

It’s an old Goan belief, which the author expresses in a couplet down below:

No matter how hard you try                 

No matter what you do

What is written on your Sixth Night

Will always come true

 

            Silviano Barbosa, the author, weaves a very fascinating narrative around this old Goan belief, exposing the social mores based on caste iniquities and servile mental attitudes implanted to the very core of the Goan psyche by the feudal and colonial hierarchies during that period of Goa’s history.

            The story revolves around Linda Antonieta Cardoso, born to Joanita Dias of Navelim and Mário Cardoso of Cuncolim on the twenty-seven October 1944. She is born in the Shudra caste, the lowest caste in the Goan caste structure, and her ancestors were toddy tappers.

As one goes reading the novel, it appears, that Sottvi, the Goddess of the Sixth Night, inscribed an exceptional future in Linda’s destiny. Sottvi endowed her with a gift of intellectual curiosity, giving her a strong will to fight against the prejudices that kept humans in subservient oppression in the society that she was born in.    

Linda’s consciousness awakens to the injustices of the caste system, for the first time, when she was about nine years old. It happened in her village Church. She had gone with her mother Joanita to the Passion Service, and they were lucky to have seats in the pew at the back. But when an upper caste woman who had arrived late to the services, orders them to vacate the seats because they are of lower caste, and that the seats be given to her, Linda rebels and fights for her rights, creating a commotion in the Church.

Much later on, when Linda was a student at Liceu Nacional Afonso de Albuquerque – Portuguese High School, in Panjim, the fellow students, who came from the Goan elite class and some from Portuguese Europeans, looked down upon her because she didn’t belong to their social status. She was just a plain village girl. The snobbish attitudes of her fellow students hurt her. She fought them by coming at the top of her class, thereby demonstrating that she was not only intellectually superior to them but a better human being.

A critical reader will come across some impetuous assertions in the narrative, which oftentimes, aren’t historically appropriate, and the characters that abound in the novel don’t voice them. They come as viewpoints or observations from the author, impeding not only the flow of the narrative but damaging the literary quality of the novel. An example:

“The majority of the ordinary Catholic people of Goa never had any trouble with the Portuguese, except the lack of influence and power. They did not care who ruled Goa as long as they were happy. Currently, they were happy. (p 207)”.

 

.... We pursue the romance of Linda and Carlos Soares, a Portuguese bureaucrat, who was an attaché to the Governor’s Colonial Office in Panjim. Fate throws a lot of insurmountable hurdles on their way, making their union almost impossible. But in the end, purity of feelings and true love overcomes them all, and the couple gets married not in Goa, nor in Portugal, but in St Michael’s Cathedral in Toronto.

You and I may not believe it, but Joanita, the mother of Linda, who came all the way from Goa to attend the wedding of her daughter, is certainly convinced that the Sottvi, the Goddess of the Sixth Night, inscribed the incomparable future of her daughter on that auspicious sixth night of her birth.

I enjoyed reading The Sixth Night.

 

Lino Leitão – author of The Gift of the Holy Cross.


Albert Peres

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 3:34:45 PM7/31/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
>>Is the University on holidays in this time of the year?<<

Contact page:
http://www.utoronto.ca/csas/contact.html

They may be, like most Canadian Universities, short due of staff
rotating and holidays during July and August. This Monday in particular
is a Civic Public Holiday in Ontario. Taking 4 days this week means a
nine day stretch off. Five days last week adds to a ten day stretch.

If anyone is interested in books or papers stocked in Toronto or any
where in North America, please feel free to send me a note directly and
will arrange to acquire the work and send via book-post or courier.

Sandra, if you have no luck, please contact me at the address below...

--
Albert Peres
Toronto, Ontario

afp...@3129.ca
416.660.0847 cell


-----Original Message-----
From: sandralobo <sandr...@netcabo.pt>
Reply-to: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

dale luis menezes

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 11:21:34 PM7/31/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear Janet,

Thanks for the reference. Is your article available in PDF? If so can you mail it?

Dale

On Sun, 31 Jul 2011 18:26:57 +0530 wrote

>





Hi Silviano et al.

Silviano didn't know you were a fellow Canadian -- are you in
Toronto area? Ben Antoa too, of course, is another fellow Canadian.
And t to add more to the caste issue, I forgot initially that I had
done an article back in the mid-1990s for a Goa conference sponsored
by the University of Toronto. Their publication of papers came out
in 1998 or thereabouts, and in that book (published by the Centre
for South Asian Studies at U. of T.) was my article that summarized
some of my conclusions on caste in the Catholic community. Here is
the citation if it will be helpful to anyone working on caste in
Goa:
@font-face {
font-family: "MS 明朝";
}@font-face {
font-family: "MS 明朝";
}@font-face {
font-family: "Cambria";
}@font-face {
font-family: "Palatino";
}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal { margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Cambria; }.MsoChpDefault { font-family: Cambria; }div.WordSection1 { page: WordSection1; }
wrote:

> > > ******************************

> > >

> > > Should writers focus on ills of society and pay
for it?

> > >

> > > I am glad someone

> > > thought about this writers group and
implemented this forum for the

> > > benefit of Goan writers. It was long needed, so
someone could vent

> > > out their feelings, frustrations, anxieties on
this forum. THANK YOU!

> >










sandralobo

unread,
Jul 31, 2011, 5:56:35 PM7/31/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Dear Albert,

Thank you very much for the offer. I will use it if I do not any feedback from the University. I extent your offer to any help I can give back in Portugal.

best regards,

Sandra

________________________________

Contact page:
http://www.utoronto.ca/csas/contact.html

afp...@3129.ca
416.660.0847 cell

Janet,

regards,

Sandra

________________________________

Regards,
Janet

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "The Third Thursday Goa Book Club" group.
To post to this group, send email to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to goa-book-clu...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/goa-book-club?hl=en.

winmail.dat

mas...@udsm.ac.tz

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Aug 1, 2011, 8:05:15 AM8/1/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Peter:
I should add that we had opportunities, cared, we had feelings and we took
responsibilities seriously ... they remained our hallmark. Remarkably your
piece below Garcia Marquez, "One Hundred Years of Solitude", remind me ...
me that I wrote an essay on for books I would take if I was given life
imprisonment .... I took the British Council Prize and I have very little
idea of what I wrote. But a remarkable thing happened in the field in
Ankole/Hoima .... I loved it because it reminded me of my childhood in
Morogoro against the backdrop of the Uluguru Mountains ... 35 years later
I had an opportunity to visit Hoima over the weekend ... so I just roamed
around asking questions meeting with people ..... a few days after
returning to Kampala the UNDP informed me that the Prime Minister wanted
to see me ..... the security fellows were suspicious of this Tanzanian ...
The meeting was just enjoyable ... he was an ex Makererean but more
important had empathy with what I was doing in Uganda helping the NGOs in
"remote areas". ....

Basically our social/phycical environment can make us parachioal or
openminded. I find the Gulf Goans creating their own space, as you did
with the "Uganda" space. If you have the feel for one space, you can get
the big picture for other space ..... Conrad was remarkable in that sense
Heart of Darkness and and Lord Jim perhaps had a big influence on me ...
That was what was going in my mind when Professor Kajubi was asking me why
I had run away from East Africa ...With my Lord Jim mentality, I would
rather be somebody in Tanzania than just one of the thousand professors in
the USA. ... and President Julius Nyerere made sure there was a role for
me. ..... What do you call that FATE?

Adolfo

Janet Rubinoff

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 12:38:18 PM8/1/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
� I haven't got in on my computer as I already looked for Sandra.� I guess I wrote it in the days before scanners and no one has asked me about that article in a long time.� I have all my fishing articles in the computer but not that one on caste.�� I am in Goa now (Canacona) and the original book is back at home in my study so I can't access it. Am doing last bit of research on fishing issues for a book I need to write.� I am back to Canada on Aug. 30th and will try and scan that a.s.a.p.� You should probably send me a reminder sometime in Sept. as I may lose your e-mail in the mess.� I can probably also send it by attachment to the Book Club.
� Best,
Janet


On 11-07-31 4:24 AM, Jason Keith Fernandes wrote:
Dear Janet,

Is there a way you could share a pdf copy of this essay with us?

thank you!

Jason

On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 9:56 PM, B MENEZES <bmen...@sympatico.ca> wrote:
Hi Janet, please add my name too to your electronic Rolodex. Working on finishing my debut novel: 'Just Matata' set in Goa and Kenya. It has a short bit on the caste issue. How can I get a copy of your piece?
If you can spare the time, I would love to meet over a coffee soon.
cheers
Braz Menezes


�Tel: 416 363 9757
� Mailing address:� 2512/55 Harbour Square, Toronto, ON, M5J2L1, Canada



Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:35:30 -0400 Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff


Hi Silviano et al.
��� Silviano didn't know you were a fellow Canadian -- are you in Toronto area?� Ben Antoa too, of course, is another fellow Canadian. And t to add more to the caste issue, I forgot initially that I had done an article back in the mid-1990s for a Goa conference sponsored by the University of Toronto.� Their publication of papers came out in 1998 or thereabouts, and in that book (published by the Centre for South Asian Studies at U. of T.) was my article that summarized some of my conclusions on caste in the Catholic community. Here is the citation if it will be helpful to anyone working on caste in Goa:

�
J. Rubinoff, �The �Casteing� of Catholicism,� in Goa: Continuity and Change,�George Coelho & N.K. Wagle (eds.), Toronto: Centre for South�Asian Studies, University of Toronto, pp. 165-81.


�� Regards,
�Janet

> > > I �am glad someone

> > > thought about this writers group and implemented this forum for the
> > > benefit of Goan writers. It was long needed, so someone could vent
> > > out their feelings, frustrations, anxieties on this forum. THANK YOU!
> >

Janet Rubinoff

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 12:28:26 PM8/1/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Sorry Rico for the personal message below.� Braz seems to have written me through the book Club ID and I can't find his own e-mail.� You have my permission to redirect it to him if you have his regular e-mail address.
��� Janet

Hi Braz,
� I would love to meet you and give you a copy of my article, but right now I am in Goa (down in Canacona interviewing members of the Pagi fishing community.� Most of the fishers here are Hindu. ) I wil be back to Toronto on Aug. 30th though a bit bedraggled from flying straight through from Delhi via Amsterdam.�
���� I looked on my computer but I guess I never scanned that caste article. Then I could have sent� it to you. Your novel sounds interesting and I look forward to reading it one of these days. I think Catholics in or out of Goa tend to get somewhat embarrassed now by the issue of caste, but this wasn't so in the 19th or mid-20th century (only more so after liberation).� I don't think the Catholic community should be embarrassed -- quite naturally people brought their old identities of family and community and status (zat) into a new religion as many Goans converted in 16th century.� Muslims who converted from Hinduism in India similarly kept their caste status & identity.� Not sure how the Goans in Africa dealt with the caste issue but I am assuming that the community in East Africa must also have these caste distinctions for better or for worse.
� Best,
�Janet (I teach at York University)


On 11-07-30 4:56 PM, B MENEZES wrote:
Hi Janet, please add my name too to your electronic Rolodex. Working on finishing my debut novel: 'Just Matata' set in Goa and Kenya. It has a short bit on the caste issue. How can I get a copy of your piece?
If you can spare the time, I would love to meet over a coffee soon.
cheers
Braz Menezes


�Tel: 416 363 9757
� Mailing address:� 2512/55 Harbour Square, Toronto, ON, M5J2L1, Canada



Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:35:30 -0400
From: jan...@yorku.ca
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff

Hi Silviano et al.
��� Silviano didn't know you were a fellow Canadian -- are you in Toronto area?� Ben Antao too, of course, is another fellow Canadian. And to add more to the caste issue, I forgot initially that I had done an article back in the mid-1990s for a Goa conference sponsored by the University of Toronto.� Their publication of papers came out in 1998 or thereabouts, and in that book (published by the Centre for South Asian Studies at U. of T.) was my article that summarized some of my conclusions on caste in the Catholic community. Here is the citation if it will be helpful to anyone working on caste in Goa:

�
J. Rubinoff, �The �Casteing� of Catholicism,� in Goa: Continuity and Change,�George Coelho & N.K. Wagle (eds.), Toronto: Centre for South�Asian Studies, University of Toronto, pp. 165-81.


�� Regards,
�Janet

Xavier Dias

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 1:34:34 PM8/1/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Hi Janet
I too would like to have a copy.
tks
x


Xavier Dias
C/o Ms. Vigilia D'Sa
Emmannuel
H. No 780 Near BoB
Atafondem
P.O. Moira
Bardez GOA 403507

Res Tel: 0832 2470795
Cell: 07588460082


Editor
Khan Kaneej Aur ADHIKAR
(Mines minerals & RIGHTS)
http://www.scribd.com/reachxdias
www.firstpeoplesfirst.in
www.adhikar.in

Jharkhand - INDIA


Editor
Khan Kaneej Aur ADHIKAR
(Mines minerals & RIGHTS)
http://www.scribd.com/reachxdias
www.firstpeoplesfirst.in
www.adhikar.in

Jharkhand - INDIA



On 1 August 2011 21:58, Janet Rubinoff <jan...@yorku.ca> wrote:
Sorry Rico for the personal message below.  Braz seems to have written me through the book Club ID and I can't find his own e-mail.  You have my permission to redirect it to him if you have his regular e-mail address.
    Janet

Hi Braz,
  I would love to meet you and give you a copy of my article, but right now I am in Goa (down in Canacona interviewing members of the Pagi fishing community.  Most of the fishers here are Hindu. ) I wil be back to Toronto on Aug. 30th though a bit bedraggled from flying straight through from Delhi via Amsterdam. 
     I looked on my computer but I guess I never scanned that caste article. Then I could have sent  it to you. Your novel sounds interesting and I look forward to reading it one of these days. I think Catholics in or out of Goa tend to get somewhat embarrassed now by the issue of caste, but this wasn't so in the 19th or mid-20th century (only more so after liberation).  I don't think the Catholic community should be embarrassed -- quite naturally people brought their old identities of family and community and status (zat) into a new religion as many Goans converted in 16th century.  Muslims who converted from Hinduism in India similarly kept their caste status & identity.  Not sure how the Goans in Africa dealt with the caste issue but I am assuming that the community in East Africa must also have these caste distinctions for better or for worse.
  Best,

 Janet (I teach at York University)


On 11-07-30 4:56 PM, B MENEZES wrote:
Hi Janet, please add my name too to your electronic Rolodex. Working on finishing my debut novel: 'Just Matata' set in Goa and Kenya. It has a short bit on the caste issue. How can I get a copy of your piece?
If you can spare the time, I would love to meet over a coffee soon.
cheers
Braz Menezes


 Tel: 416 363 9757
  Mailing address:  2512/55 Harbour Square, Toronto, ON, M5J2L1, Canada



Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:35:30 -0400
From: jan...@yorku.ca
To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff

Hi Silviano et al.
    Silviano didn't know you were a fellow Canadian -- are you in Toronto area?  Ben Antao too, of course, is another fellow Canadian. And to add more to the caste issue, I forgot initially that I had done an article back in the mid-1990s for a Goa conference sponsored by the University of Toronto.  Their publication of papers came out in 1998 or thereabouts, and in that book (published by the Centre for South Asian Studies at U. of T.) was my article that summarized some of my conclusions on caste in the Catholic community. Here is the citation if it will be helpful to anyone working on caste in Goa:

 
J. Rubinoff, “The ‘Casteing’ of Catholicism,” in Goa: Continuity and Change, George Coelho & N.K. Wagle (eds.), Toronto: Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Toronto, pp. 165-81.


   Regards,
 Janet

Janet Rubinoff

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 1:30:50 PM8/1/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
  Haven't got it on my computer, unfortunately and I am here in Goa so can't scan it at this point.
Will post a copy in Sept. when I get back home.
 Janet

Janet Rubinoff

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 12:47:38 PM8/1/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
It could be that the admin. assistant is on vacation in August. The
University is not closed though things are slower in the summer and heat
up when the majority of students come back in Sept. Also I don't think
she works there full time. You might contact Prof. Narendra Wagle (yes,
he too is a Goan though originally from Bombay) who was the past Chair
of the South Asia Centre. He is retired now. You can reach him at
n.w...@utoronto.ca. Perhaps he knows if the Centre still has copies or
can direct you to the new Chair (she too may be away in August).
But I will scan and send you the article by e-mail after I get back
to Toronto.
Best,
Janet

On 11-07-31 7:23 AM, sandralobo wrote:
> Janet,
>
> As you have given me this clue before, I have tried, as I've informed you, to order the book directly, but still had no answer. Is the University on holidays in this time of the year?
>
> regards,
>
> Sandra
>
> ________________________________
>
> De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com em nome de Janet Rubinoff
> Enviada: s�b 30-07-2011 16:35
> Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
> Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff
>
>
> Hi Silviano et al.
> Silviano didn't know you were a fellow Canadian -- are you in Toronto area? Ben Antoa too, of course, is another fellow Canadian. And t to add more to the caste issue, I forgot initially that I had done an article back in the mid-1990s for a Goa conference sponsored by the University of Toronto. Their publication of papers came out in 1998 or thereabouts, and in that book (published by the Centre for South Asian Studies at U. of T.) was my article that summarized some of my conclusions on caste in the Catholic community. Here is the citation if it will be helpful to anyone working on caste in Goa:
>
>

> J. Rubinoff, "The 'Casteing' of Catholicism," in Goa: Continuity and Change, George Coelho& N.K. Wagle (eds.), Toronto: Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Toronto, pp. 165-81.

Janet Rubinoff

unread,
Aug 1, 2011, 12:42:20 PM8/1/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Hi Angela,

Would love to see your book when it gets translated. My Portuguese is
very basic! I am in Goa now and I don't seem to have a scan on my
computer of that article I wrote on caste back in the '90s. I will have
to do it when I get back and post it to the Book Club.
BEst, Janet

On 11-07-31 6:35 AM, �ngela Xavier wrote:
> I would love to have it, too. For those who don't know about it, the last chapter of my book, A Inven��o de Goa (Lisbon, 2008), unfortunately only in Portuguese, is about caste issues, too, in Goan territories in the end of 17th century. I am also finishing a new book, this one in English, with Ines Zupanov (Catholic Orientalism) which will have a chapter with new material on it.
>
> Cheers,
> �ngela


> ________________________________________
> De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] Em Nome De Jason Keith Fernandes [jason.k....@gmail.com]
> Enviado: domingo, 31 de Julho de 2011 9:24
> Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
> Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff
>
> Dear Janet,
>
> Is there a way you could share a pdf copy of this essay with us?
>
> thank you!
>
> Jason
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 9:56 PM, B MENEZES<bmen...@sympatico.ca<mailto:bmen...@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
> Hi Janet, please add my name too to your electronic Rolodex. Working on finishing my debut novel: 'Just Matata' set in Goa and Kenya. It has a short bit on the caste issue. How can I get a copy of your piece?
> If you can spare the time, I would love to meet over a coffee soon.
> cheers
> Braz Menezes
>
> Tel: 416 363 9757
> Mailing address: 2512/55 Harbour Square, Toronto, ON, M5J2L1, Canada
>
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:35:30 -0400
>
> From: jan...@yorku.ca<mailto:jan...@yorku.ca>
> To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff
>
>
> Hi Silviano et al.
> Silviano didn't know you were a fellow Canadian -- are you in Toronto area? Ben Antoa too, of course, is another fellow Canadian. And t to add more to the caste issue, I forgot initially that I had done an article back in the mid-1990s for a Goa conference sponsored by the University of Toronto. Their publication of papers came out in 1998 or thereabouts, and in that book (published by the Centre for South Asian Studies at U. of T.) was my article that summarized some of my conclusions on caste in the Catholic community. Here is the citation if it will be helpful to anyone working on caste in Goa:
>
>

> J. Rubinoff, �The �Casteing� of Catholicism,� in Goa: Continuity and Change, George Coelho& N.K. Wagle (eds.), Toronto: Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Toronto, pp. 165-81.

Ângela Xavier

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 4:57:22 AM8/2/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Thanks, Janet.
I would love to keep in contact!
Ângela
________________________________________
De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] Em Nome De Janet Rubinoff [jan...@yorku.ca]
Enviado: segunda-feira, 1 de Agosto de 2011 17:42

Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff

Hi Angela,

Would love to see your book when it gets translated. My Portuguese is
very basic! I am in Goa now and I don't seem to have a scan on my
computer of that article I wrote on caste back in the '90s. I will have
to do it when I get back and post it to the Book Club.
BEst, Janet

On 11-07-31 6:35 AM, Ângela Xavier wrote:
> I would love to have it, too. For those who don't know about it, the last chapter of my book, A Invenção de Goa (Lisbon, 2008), unfortunately only in Portuguese, is about caste issues, too, in Goan territories in the end of 17th century. I am also finishing a new book, this one in English, with Ines Zupanov (Catholic Orientalism) which will have a chapter with new material on it.
>
> Cheers,
> Ângela


> ________________________________________
> De: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com [goa-bo...@googlegroups.com] Em Nome De Jason Keith Fernandes [jason.k....@gmail.com]
> Enviado: domingo, 31 de Julho de 2011 9:24
> Para: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com
> Assunto: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff
>
> Dear Janet,
>
> Is there a way you could share a pdf copy of this essay with us?
>
> thank you!
>
> Jason
>
> On Sat, Jul 30, 2011 at 9:56 PM, B MENEZES<bmen...@sympatico.ca<mailto:bmen...@sympatico.ca>> wrote:
> Hi Janet, please add my name too to your electronic Rolodex. Working on finishing my debut novel: 'Just Matata' set in Goa and Kenya. It has a short bit on the caste issue. How can I get a copy of your piece?
> If you can spare the time, I would love to meet over a coffee soon.
> cheers
> Braz Menezes
>
> Tel: 416 363 9757
> Mailing address: 2512/55 Harbour Square, Toronto, ON, M5J2L1, Canada
>
>
> ________________________________
> Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2011 11:35:30 -0400
>
> From: jan...@yorku.ca<mailto:jan...@yorku.ca>
> To: goa-bo...@googlegroups.com<mailto:goa-bo...@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [GOABOOKCLUB] from Janet Rubinoff
>
>
> Hi Silviano et al.
> Silviano didn't know you were a fellow Canadian -- are you in Toronto area? Ben Antoa too, of course, is another fellow Canadian. And t to add more to the caste issue, I forgot initially that I had done an article back in the mid-1990s for a Goa conference sponsored by the University of Toronto. Their publication of papers came out in 1998 or thereabouts, and in that book (published by the Centre for South Asian Studies at U. of T.) was my article that summarized some of my conclusions on caste in the Catholic community. Here is the citation if it will be helpful to anyone working on caste in Goa:
>
>

> J. Rubinoff, “The ‘Casteing’ of Catholicism,” in Goa: Continuity and Change, George Coelho& N.K. Wagle (eds.), Toronto: Centre for South Asian Studies, University of Toronto, pp. 165-81.

--

Nazareth, Peter

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 10:09:21 AM8/2/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Dear Silviano,

When I think about it, I realize it is not only Goans who think that fictional characters are real life people but also novelists think so when they read novels by other writers.  If you can track down my essay "Path of Thunder: Meeting Bessie Head", you will see that when Bessie Head (South Africa/Botswana, famous novelist) read my "In a Brown Mantle" in 1977, she asked me who Robert Kyeyune was--that is, who he was in real life.  [My essay was published in the journal Research in African Literatures in 2006--Fall or Winter issue, I forget--but you may be able to track it down on-line.  Bessie Head died in 1986. I met her ex-husband Harold in Toronto in the late nineteen seventies.] Maybe this is why novelists have disclaimers at the beginning.  On the other hand, John Baskerville, an African-American musicologist and musician, said when he read the disclaimed to "The General is Up" that it did the opposite of what it was apparently saying--it was actually saying that the characters in the novel were based on real-life people.

Peter


Sent: Sunday, July 31, 2011 11:49 AM

Nazareth, Peter

unread,
Aug 2, 2011, 6:15:43 PM8/2/11
to goa-bo...@googlegroups.com

Dear Silviano,

You quoted from something I said about the manuscript of your novel.  I don't remember what you quoted from what I said, or indeed anything I said. I think I have moved on since that time so I may not have the same reaction to the same manuscript.  You may have been right to ignore what I said. 

Peter


Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 9:09 AM
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