Watts Up...?
Jan 28, 2022 at 6:16 AM Post #2,956 of 4,653
I‘m glad I was able to introduce you to new music that you liked, Christer. I know you set high standards for what you listen to.

The funny thing is I did not realise the first video I posted was mono. My music system at the time was disassembled into its component parts and my first listen to that video was from my tv, which is a relatively small 48 inch Sony with the whole screen acting as a speaker (no sound bar or external speakers), so no sound stage to speak of. I just assumed it was a stereo video recording like others from Agnes Obel that I had listened to through my Focal Utopia headphones.

Yes, that Paris concert is one of the several Agnes Obel YouTube videos I have saved - a good mix of early and later stuff. Many of her live videos, especially the small studio sets, are as much a joy to watch as they are to listen to - the musicians’ versatility, the incongruity of seeing classical musicians operating elaborate pedal boards to create loops and other sound effects, and the 2-mic setups Agnes often uses to allow her to pitch-shift her voice. I must try to get along to a concert the next time she is performing in London.
Yes indeed and thanks again. Imho in the popular music genres the gems are few and far between, and it is always nice to discover something as good as her music.
And if I were you I would not miss the upcoming Anoushka Shankar concert in London if one can still get tickets for it.
She is my absolute favorite among World Music artists and her recent collaborations with Alev Lenz and Shilpa Shetty and others are also on YT and I listen to those too very often.
But yes Agnes definitely has me hooked as well.
Cheers CC
 
Jan 31, 2022 at 7:20 AM Post #2,959 of 4,653
So here is my technical presentation about Mojo 2 - the changes from Mojo.

Slide1.JPG


Slide2.JPG


Slide3.JPG


The big change here is the removal of the coupling capacitor - this gave Mojo it's distinctive warmth. It's a little strange that just one cap can have so much difference as other DACs are full of capacitors. How can one simple passive component make so much difference? I sometimes think that tonal balance is a little like balancing scales, and as one improves transparency the weight and sensitivity of the scales become more and more sensitive - so on other DACs a small change would not be a big deal, but because of Mojo's innate transparency, very small technical changes can have a profound effect.

The next big change is the noise shaper and pulse array DAC, which accounts for most of the improvements in depth perception.

But with Mojo 2 having a more neutral tonal balance, how can one tune the sound quality to taste without lossy DSP?

Slide4.JPG


Slide5.JPG


Slide6.JPG


Slide7.JPG


Slide8.JPG


Slide9.JPG


The key here is being able to define what perfect means for EQ; and then being able to measure the performance - if you can't measure the actual performance, then "perfect" "transparent" or "lossless" are mere words with no verifiable meaning.

There are three important features to transparent performance - small signal amplitude accuracy, small signal phase accuracy and finally noise floor modulation.

Small signal amplitude accuracy is something I have known about for many years, with very many listening tests confirming it's importance. Whilst developing Dave, I could put a number on the requirement - basically, in order to preserve the perception of depth, I needed to be able to reproduce a -301 dB signal with an amplitude accuracy of +/- 0.001dB - these numbers are confirmed through digital simulation - in short digital domain measurements. If a noise shaper or digital module failed this test, it would degrade depth and detail perception. So if we want to preserve depth (lossless depth perception) its essential that any DSP needs to pass this demanding test.

Small signal with amplitude phase accuracy is when you compare the phase shift from a 0dBFS signal, against the same signal but at -301dB. Again, to pass the test the phase shift needs to be identical with the different amplitudes (identical meaning within +/- 0.001 deg). This realisation that digital circuits phase shifts are non-linear with amplitude started with work onto why the Hugo M scaler had better perception of depth. Since my WTA filters are small signal amplitude perfect, it implied that phase shifts with amplitude could degrade depth perception too. I tested this out with work upon Mojo's improved noise shapers - the original Mojo noise shaper did have a phase error at -301dB, and eliminating this gave much better depth perception.

The final issue is noise floor modulation, where the noise level changes with signal level. Noise floor modulation is very audible; I have heard effects when the noise floor modulation is well below measurable limits. Eliminating noise floor modulation in digital modules is possible with fixed point architecture and using noise shaping for truncation; conventional floating point DSP have significant and measurable noise floor modulation.

With EQ these problems are further compounded with IIR filters, as internal nodes are severely attenuated by low frequency coefficients - these nodes are then accumulatively amplified over time - thus a small error gets magnified into a substantial error. Indeed, I initially calculated that I would need 104 bits DSP for transparent operation - vastly larger than 64 bit DSP - but after designing the custom core, and running my suite of tests for transparency, the measurements for small signal phase failed - even with 104 bit processing on every internal node. Noise shaping allows the EQ to work linearly below 104 bits, as an error is constantly corrected. The core also passed my listening tests for transparency too.

Conventional 64 bit DSP suffers with measurable noise floor modulation, and significant errors for small signals - these filters fail to work with ultra-small signals.

Slide10.JPG


I really like cross-feed - to me it's essential with headphone listening.

Slide11.JPG


Note that the DSP is not parametric DSP, but a broad brush way of tuning the sound quality balance. That said, it can deal effectively with low frequency problems of headphones and IEMs.

Slide12.JPG


Slide13.JPG


I noticed a number of posters mentioning that Mojo was too loud with ultra sensitive IEMs. So the big change here is a bigger range for low volume. Also, pressing + and - together gives you a panic mute.

Slide14.JPG


Slide15.JPG


Slide16.JPG


Slide17.JPG


Pretty much the same as Mojo.
Slide18.JPG


Again, no measurable noise floor modulation.

Slide19.JPG


The only reason I could put in more features and better sound quality was by having better battery performance, and power efficiency - so I could spend that power budget on the FPGA.

Slide20.JPG


The battery charging rate indicator is a great function. Most poor charging time is down to the cable, so being able to see the USB voltage is a useful feature.
When in desktop mode the battery is disconnected in order to maximise battery life. To do this I needed to improve the power supply rejection, by using my very low impedance discrete charger (when fully charged) and improved regulation for the amp. We can see this on the measurements as crosstalk (-118dB @ 1kHz) is better.

Slide21.JPG


Slide22.JPG


This project started in 2018, with many prototypes, to fine tune the performance.

It's going to be interesting to see how well the tone controls are accepted. As an audiophile I wouldn't touch EQ with a barge pole, as all implementations (analogue or digital) seriously degrades performance. So having a way of tweaking the sound to taste, or compensating for poor LF transducer performance, without degrading transparency at all, should prove to be a powerful tool. After all, how many of us have rejected something because it is simply too bright or too warm? Of course, if it's too bright because of distortion or noise floor modulation, then EQ can't cure that. But for a linear frequency response adjustment, EQ can help.
 
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Jan 31, 2022 at 7:29 AM Post #2,962 of 4,653
So here is my technical presentation about Mojo 2 - the changes from Mojo.

Slide1.JPG

Slide2.JPG

Slide3.JPG

The big change here is the removal of the coupling capacitor - this gave Mojo it's distinctive warmth. It's a little strange that just one cap can have so much difference as other DACs are full of capacitors. How can one simple passive component make so much difference? I sometimes think that tonal balance is a little like balancing scales, and as one improves transparency the weight and sensitivity of the scales become more and more sensitive - so on other DACs a small change would not be a big deal, but because of Mojo's innate transparency, very small technical changes can have a profound effect.

The next big change is the noise shaper and pulse array DAC, which accounts for most of the improvements in depth perception.

But with Mojo 2 having a more neutral tonal balance, how can one tune the sound quality to taste without lossy DSP?

Slide4.JPG

Slide5.JPG

Slide6.JPG

Slide7.JPG

Slide8.JPG

Slide9.JPG

The key here is being able to define what perfect means for EQ; and then being able to measure the performance - if you can't measure the actual performance, then "perfect" "transparent" or "lossless" are mere words with no verifiable meaning.

There are three important features to transparent performance - small signal amplitude accuracy, small signal phase accuracy and finally noise floor modulation.

Small signal amplitude accuracy is something I have known about for many years, with very many listening tests confirming it's importance. Whilst developing Dave, I could put a number on the requirement - basically, in order to preserve the perception of depth, I needed to be able to reproduce a -301 dB signal with an amplitude accuracy of +/- 0.001dB - these numbers are confirmed through digital simulation - in short digital domain measurements. If a noise shaper or digital module failed this test, it would degrade depth and detail perception. So if we want to preserve depth (lossless depth perception) its essential that any DSP needs to pass this demanding test.

Small signal with amplitude phase accuracy is when you compare the phase shift from a 0dBFS signal, against the same signal but at -301dB. Again, to pass the test the phase shift needs to be identical with the different amplitudes (identical meaning within +/- 0.001 deg). This realisation that digital circuits phase shifts are non-linear with amplitude started with work onto why the Hugo M scaler had better perception of depth. Since my WTA filters are small signal amplitude perfect, it implied that phase shifts with amplitude could degrade depth perception too. I tested this out with work upon Mojo's improved noise shapers - the original Mojo noise shaper did have a phase error at -301dB, and eliminating this gave much better depth perception.

The final issue is noise floor modulation, where the noise level changes with signal level. Noise floor modulation is very audible; I have heard effects when the noise floor modulation is well below measurable limits. Eliminating noise floor modulation in digital modules is possible with fixed point architecture and using noise shaping for truncation; conventional floating point DSP have significant and measurable noise floor modulation.

With EQ these problems are further compounded with IIR filters, as internal nodes are severely attenuated by low frequency coefficients - these nodes are then accumulatively amplified over time - thus a small error gets magnified into a substantial error. Indeed, I initially calculated that I would need 104 bits DSP for transparent operation - vastly larger than 64 bit DSP - but after designing the custom core, and running my suite of tests for transparency, the measurements for small signal phase failed - even with 104 bit processing on every internal node. Noise shaping allows the EQ to work linearly below 104 bits, as an error is constantly corrected. The core also passed my listening tests for transparency too.

Conventional 64 bit DSP suffers with measurable noise floor modulation, and significant errors for small signals - these filters fail to work with ultra-small signals.

Slide10.JPG

I really like cross-feed - to me it's essential with headphone listening.

Slide11.JPG

Note that the DSP is not parametric DSP, but a broad brush way of tuning the sound quality balance. That said, it can deal effectively with low frequency problems of headphones and IEMs.

Slide12.JPG

Slide13.JPG

I noticed a number of posters mentioning that Mojo was too loud with ultra sensitive IEMs. So the big change here is a bigger range for low volume. Also, pressing + and - together gives you a panic mute.

Slide14.JPG

Slide15.JPG

Slide16.JPG

Slide17.JPG

Pretty much the same as Mojo.Slide18.JPG

Again, no measurable noise floor modulation.

Slide19.JPG

The only reason I could put in more features and better sound quality was by having better battery performance, and power efficiency - so I could spend that power budget on the FPGA.

Slide20.JPG

The battery charging rate indicator is a great function. Most poor charging time is down to the cable, so being able to see the USB voltage is a useful feature.
When in desktop mode the battery is disconnected in order to maximise battery life. To do this I needed to improve the power supply rejection, by using my very low impedance discrete charger (when fully charged) and improved regulation for the amp. We can see this on the measurements as crosstalk (-118dB @ 1kHz) is better.

Slide21.JPG

Slide22.JPG

This project started in 2018, with many prototypes, to fine tune the performance.

It's going to be interesting to see how well the tone controls are accepted. As an audiophile I wouldn't touch EQ with a barge pole, as all implementations (analogue or digital) seriously degrades performance. So having a way of tweaking the sound to taste, or compensating for poor LF transducer performance, without degrading transparency at all, should prove to be a powerful tool. After all, how many of us have rejected something because it is simply too bright or too warm? Of course, if it's too bright because of distortion or noise floor modulation, then EQ can't cure that. But for a linear frequency response adjustment, EQ can help.
I need one of these!
 
Jan 31, 2022 at 7:31 AM Post #2,963 of 4,653
How much different will Mojo 2 be to Hugo 2 ?
 
Jan 31, 2022 at 9:04 AM Post #2,965 of 4,653
Very interesting. To those of us who are not interested in EQ, it sounds like the major changes are:
DC servo
Improved digital noise shapers
New 2nd order analog noise shaper to remove the extra capacitor

And it doesn’t sound like Mojo 2 has a WTA2 filter because of thermal limitations but the better battery allows for the improved digital noise shapers and DSP because that’s all there is thermal room for.

To me the new EQ is fascinating because I know people who insist on using software EQ for their headphones and then complain that Chord DACs are nothing special because the source digital music has already lost transparency. Essentially garbage in garbage out. However, given the limited ability to EQ and the complexity of implementing it on the Mojo 2, I don’t know if those software EQ people would change from their more complicated software EQ to the more transparent but simplified hardware EQ.

I don’t need Mojo 2 but I’m really tempted to get one just to compare to my Mojo which I don’t use often enough to justify the upgrade.
 
Jan 31, 2022 at 9:50 AM Post #2,967 of 4,653
@Rob Watts does the Mojo 2 use the WTA 2 stage to also perform the EQ functions? Does it do EQ and upscaling to 256FS in parallel?
 
Jan 31, 2022 at 10:00 AM Post #2,968 of 4,653
Very cool. Does it also have auto on/off function? I remember this was my major gripe with mojo 1 in desktop use

Yes it has auto off when all digital inputs are removed after 10 minutes. But it remains in desktop mode so long as power is applied to the charging port.

How much different will Mojo 2 be to Hugo 2 ?

It's closer now, but Hugo 2 is still superior.

Very interesting. To those of us who are not interested in EQ, it sounds like the major changes are:
DC servo
Improved digital noise shapers
New 2nd order analog noise shaper to remove the extra capacitor

And it doesn’t sound like Mojo 2 has a WTA2 filter because of thermal limitations but the better battery allows for the improved digital noise shapers and DSP because that’s all there is thermal room for.

To me the new EQ is fascinating because I know people who insist on using software EQ for their headphones and then complain that Chord DACs are nothing special because the source digital music has already lost transparency. Essentially garbage in garbage out. However, given the limited ability to EQ and the complexity of implementing it on the Mojo 2, I don’t know if those software EQ people would change from their more complicated software EQ to the more transparent but simplified hardware EQ.

I don’t need Mojo 2 but I’m really tempted to get one just to compare to my Mojo which I don’t use often enough to justify the upgrade.

No second order analogue noise shaper on Mojo 2 - it just needs the digital DC servo to remove the cap.

Correct on WTA2. But the filtering from 705/768 (16FS) to 2048FS has been improved.
 
Jan 31, 2022 at 11:38 AM Post #2,970 of 4,653
Yes it has auto off when all digital inputs are removed after 10 minutes. But it remains in desktop mode so long as power is applied to the charging port.



It's closer now, but Hugo 2 is still superior.



No second order analogue noise shaper on Mojo 2 - it just needs the digital DC servo to remove the cap.

Correct on WTA2. But the filtering from 705/768 (16FS) to 2048FS has been improved.
Hmm, H2 like Qutest works with the Mscaler which for me is THE defining factor.
Does M2 also work with the Mscaker is the question I need answered now?

If so I might be interested in one for my hopefully upcoming travelling lighter than before later this year. I guess there will be loads of H2s for sale second hand when all those who sell their H2s to finance an M2, will put them up for sale.

It would be nice to be able to travel without a separate headphone amp next winter, but I do not want to live without Mscaler SQ.
If M2 is not quite as transparent even as H2 on its own, I can see no personal need for it unless it will work with the Mscaler and then compete well with H2/Mscaler.
Then again I can not help but wondering ,what is that much sharper corners than M2 looking thing than M2 that has been hinted at in some pics on this site recently, an M2 TT?
Or will a smaller more portable Mscaler also materialize soon?
Or will all the advanced DSP things you mention sort of turn it into an already "onboard Mscaler"?
Oops, I almost forgot to ask how Mojo 2 can be both SOTA "Transparency and Musicality" but still not quite as good as Hugo 2 ??
Whatever is the case I predict there will be many Hugo 2s for sale second hand in a while.
And if my personal M2 wishes are not fullfiled by M2 i might be tempted to buy one when H2 prices come down to a more realistic level than curently.

Cheers CC
 
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