Divya Gokulnath, co-founder of BYJU'S, is about taking care and taking charge.
A storyteller could easily be described as an explorer. There are times that artifacts are unearthed, providing a runway for our imaginations to soar. But, there are also times when one predictable path opens the door to a previously unimagined light.
This storyteller has spent time in the past interviewing and getting to know Divya Gokulnath, affording the narrative license to unabashedly suggest that the search for ‘next’ may be over. Divya might just be what we have been looking for and what we need in a world seemingly uncomfortable with how to proceed.
The story about Divya and her co-founder and husband, Byju Raveendran, has been well-documented. A love of curiosity and learning merged to create the most influential education company across the globe.
There is a spirit in being in Divya’s presence that represents deep-rooted strength and conviction for what is right. The storytellers of Hollywood and Bollywood would have us believe that our explorers are as tall as skyscrapers and commanding as battle-tested commanders on the field of war.
The storytellers of the future might want to reset their horizon line for the voices and footsteps of a woman who has only just turned the page on the script of a lifetime. You can call her Divya; this storyteller will call her, ‘next.’
Taking Care and Taking Charge
Rod Berger: You know, there's the notion of the glass ceiling. I wonder if we have romanticized this notion to some degree, and then we celebrate when we think we've broken through.
But I also think we're missing an opportunity to better understand what the glass ceiling looks like and what it feels like to get beyond the metaphor altogether. I struggle to fully grasp the first-person experience of the metaphor in that I am a white male of relative opportunity.
Can you help me understand your perception of the glass ceiling? What would it look like if you were walking in and painting a picture? Is it lit up? Is it a dark room? How should we understand the glass ceiling, so young girls and women can realize all the potential and amazing gifts they have to offer the world?
Divya Gokulnath: So, if I have to paint the glass ceiling, for me, and for so many women who are trying to give their best both at work and at home, it looks multifaceted.
There are age-old stereotypes about women. All of this resides in myths. Like, women cannot take charge; they can only take care. I believe these myths are, in essence, etched into the metaphor of the glass ceiling. To ‘shatter’ the glass ceiling is a bit of a misnomer. It is about the layers that build up, over time and all around us, that, in totality, create the notion of obstacle. This is about walking across the glass ceiling. It isn’t in front or above us, but rather something that you walk on and every step you take presents challenges.
Education for All provides BYJU'S with the opportunity to bring learning to young people in remote ... [+]
The irony is that we think we need a bigger, stronger hammer to break the glass when the hammer is what is used to build it up in the first place. Societies across the world assume that women cannot take charge, only asserting the notion of one being able to take care.
If an organization believes that you contribute less to the workforce as a woman and mother, then the organization must understand that you can lead by example. Becoming a mother has made me much more efficient at what I do because I value every minute more and make every minute count.
The pandemic has added another layer to this glass ceiling. The number of women who dropped out of the workforce again has increased. If I speak about India, half our graduates are women, but only 23% are in the workforce, down from 35%.
The problem is becoming worse during a time when we can finally set wonderful examples for so many younger women. We (women) can take charge of our lives and be successful professionally and as members of our family.
One key element to me is the language we let guide us. I would contend that women can take care and take charge. I would also add that men can take charge and take care. The relationship between the two concepts is very important to me.
Berger: I'm so glad you referenced men in that equation because I think we're so used to focusing on the struggle to break the glass ceiling without entirely unpacking the role men are playing. Can you talk a little about how men play a role in what you envision for a better-balanced world between home and work?
Gokulnath: As the days go by, we see men contribute equally. I think the pandemic has played a role. Many men spent time at home with their families and their children, and so many of them came out of that [Covid-19] feeling rejuvenated.
I come from a family where men have been my biggest enablers. My father-in-law, my husband's brother, and their cousins chip in and take care equally. I see the importance it has had on my children's development. I see how much of a role it plays in making my two boys understand that as they grow up, they also need to take care. They are equal shareholders.
Education the Great Equalizer
Berger: Let’s extend the discussion to education and the role the industry plays in supporting the independence of girls.
Gokulnath: If you educate a girl, you educate a generation. Because the minute she's educated, she will ensure that her future children are educated. It is a generational shift in thinking that has a long-term impact.
This is where technology can play a massive role because technology is a strong enabler. I've seen technology enable a teacher’s improvement while also bridging traditional and geographic divides. A young girl sitting in a remote village can have access to the same high-quality teacher compared to someone growing up in a developed country.
I have seen this type of impact with my own eyes and with our not-for-profit social initiative, Education for All. Our efforts have impacted 3.4 million children over the last 15 months. The 3.4 million children that we have supported are all first-generation learners. The impact is huge. It is their primary mode of learning. And half of the students are girls.
BYJU'S efforts are connecting generations of learners from across the globe.
If you see what technology does, it actually enables you to learn from where you want and how you wish to engage.
Parents are also okay with their daughters being exposed to content they can consume from the comfort of their homes. Some places are not safe for young girls. Not every parent is comfortable with their daughter traveling miles to attend school because it is too dangerous. Technology can be an answer for the student and the parent.
It is far easier to bridge the inequities in the digital world than in the physical world. If you think about it, it's much more challenging to build schools and equip them with great teachers than enabling internet access and providing a smartphone.
Story Time
Berger: I want to talk about the stories we consume and the power of narratives to shape our experiences. How do you think of story as a powerful lever in what we're trying to accomplish?
Gokulnath: Stories depict generational transformation and opportunity, where you see that the impact goes beyond the current generation. We need to see those stories to make a longstanding impact on young people’s lives.
For example, there is a village in India where there are girls who, to escape child marriage, play football. This commitment to sport postpones or gives these girls time to get married. That is powerful.
Unfortunately, and from a narrative perspective, the stories that have an impact take time to develop. Education is an investment that might not pay off for some time. The story might not provide returns in a day or a year. The audience might have to wait for years to see the culmination of education on the path of a girl growing into a woman.
I think that's where the power of storytelling can help us. The stories we see should be about the impact education creates for young people and the generations that follow.
Social Voice
Berger: Let's turn the topic to you specifically, let's talk about how you've changed as an entrepreneur. It feels like you have really come into your voice, sharing quite a bit about yourself and your perspective on life and business.
There is so much passion in what you are sharing socially. I am not reading posts on social platforms that invoke prototypical corporate speak. As an entrepreneur, when did you feel comfortable in your skin? Did you say to yourself, “I think people are going to listen, and I think that there's an audience for my opinion.” Was there a point in time where you started to feel that and embrace the essence of yourself?
Gokulnath: There's no single answer. If I reflect on how I started the journey 14 years ago, as a teacher, I always had an audience to listen to what I had to say. The first class was 100 students, and I had students who looked up to me.
Then in business, I wore several proverbial hats, as so many entrepreneurs do during the initial growth phases. But, as you progress, you realize the focus must be on enabling the people around you.
So, maybe the turning point was when I was able to nurture and enable more leaders in the system who could do things much better than me. Today, they are better leaders because of it. Ultimately, I think the strength of a leader is in enabling more leaders around you.
I’ve learned a lot about myself through the growth of our company. I’ve learned that to grow big; you also must be cognizant of moving fast. Sometimes I feel like an elephant with wings because we are such a big company (40,000 employees), but we are flying. And I’ll admit, that's not easy to do.
I've come to understand that even with growth and expansion, agility is key. I contribute my perspectives on LinkedIn because that's where many people ask us about how we’ve built BYJU’S. I want people to know about our journey so they can succeed without making mistakes if they can be avoided.
I believe it's all about experimentation. In business, there might be several approaches that don’t work like they were originally conceived. Then there will be one approach that will work and turn out big.
I hope we create an ecosystem of successful, happy entrepreneurs. I hope there comes a day, Rod, where we don't have to say, female entrepreneur or woman leader. We need to get to the point where we don’t have to attach gender to the word leader or entrepreneur. This is my hope.
But until we get to that place, I’ll have to hold out hope that women find inspiration from the collective story and weave their own path where they can take charge and take care.
Sensing Responsibility
Berger: Where did the sense of responsibility start with you? It is so strong in your voice and presence that it's as if your North Star hinges on this sense that you can do more.
I can imagine you losing sleep thinking not just about the impact you and the greater team are making but about the child you haven’t reached yet. Am I far afield, or am I reading the room correctly?
Gokulnath: It's always been there. And it was in me from the first class that I entered, where I taught the first set of students to the millions of children who are learning from us through video and the app, to the centers we're building every day (500 across India).
It's just that the responsibilities increase as we grow. We started [BYJU’S] out of passion and for creating a change in society. This passion intersected with a strong need. I believe that is the biggest reason why it's worked so far.
I feel the responsibility as a teacher, an entrepreneur, a co-founder, and a mother.
Berger: Would it be fair to also give you the title of Ambassador? It feels like you're an ambassador for a strong, independent, but inclusive female voice?
Gokulnath: I’d embrace an ambassador role for strong leaders irrespective of gender, an ambassador for merit and talent, and an ambassador for fairness.
Relationship to Success
Berger: How has your relationship, personally, to success changed over time?
Gokulnath: I don't think that we have done anything that would allow us to say, now we are successful. I think about the stories we receive from those impacted by our efforts.
For example, a girl called in and said that she would only be able to learn using BYJU’S. Her mother took the phone and said, “You know, if I had this when I was a child, I would have done something else with my life.”
A student with cerebral palsy wrote me a message on Instagram saying that for the last four years, he's learning through BYJU’S. He stressed he's only able to learn because of us. These are the moments that motivate us to forge ahead.
But I would not call it a success because there is a long way to go and much more to be done.
Berger: Do you envision that there will be a point in time when you can say to yourself, “We have been successful.” Or is there an internal fear that, if you come to that realization, the motor might change the energy with which you pursue all that you do?
Gokulnath: For us, it's the journey, which is as exciting as the destination, although I don't know what that destination is. It's just to do something better than what you did yesterday.
Leaving a Legacy
Berger: The word entrepreneur wasn’t common among most societies even a generation ago. I wonder what advice you might have for young people as they enter a world where it seems everything is about becoming an entrepreneur.
Gokulnath: Entrepreneurship is really a mindset. I am a big believer that entrepreneurs must always dream big and dream bigger each day.
Just to give you an example – when we could fill classrooms, we booked auditoriums. And when we could fill auditoriums, we booked stadiums. We knew that students would come because we focused on high-quality content. We focused on creating better and more substantial learning outcomes.
I also believe that whatever you’re building should address a societal need. You can create impact at scale and support communities at large. You must develop goals that support a level of impact that matters across communities and generations.
A storyteller might get the urge to embellish the notes of one’s story, ensuring greater audience impact. However, there is no need to add anything to the story of Divya Gokulnath. The raw footage paints a wondrous picture of strength, independence, and a tangible appreciation for family that ultimately drives this powerhouse leader.
BYJU’S, the company, continues to dot the headlines with increasing valuation numbers that cause one to pause. Yet, the people behind the phenomenal growth actually illustrate what value means in the context of making a difference.
While at the time of this interview, the general populous remains gripped by stories of females shattering metaphors of yesteryear, it should be noted that there exists a ‘screenwriter’ trying to change the narrative.
She goes by one name. You can call her, Divya. This reporter will continue to call her, ‘next.’
Interviews have been edited and condensed for clarity.
